Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2009 Liberty Flames football team


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. J04n(talk page) 09:54, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

2009 Liberty Flames football team

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there seemes to be no reason for this page, the info should be on the team pagwe  Thus Spake   Lee Tru.  16:16, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Virginia-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 16:44, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of American football-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 16:44, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 16:45, 30 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Keep Typically we find that there is enough press generated from Division I college football seasons to warrant an individual article and pass WP:GNG. While I personally wouldn't have pursued an individual season article for this team (maybe a cluster of multiple seasons or a conference season article would be better) and the article itself is not showing the third party reliable sources that we like, I am confident that such third party sources do indeed exist.  The issue then comes down to being that the article is incomplete and in need of editing instead of the subject being non-notable and the article needing deleted.  As far as the information being on the team page, Liberty has been playing football for 40 years now and at an average of 10 games a season, that's 400 lines of a table for each game and would be very clumsy for one article.--Paul McDonald (talk) 18:34, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep/weak merge. Via Paul McDonald. I am a former student, though, of Liberty, so I won't be offended if you don't include my vote. However, I think Paul McDonald described what should happen to the article well and I agree.  srsrox  BlahBlahBlah...   19:44, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, J04n(talk page) 01:46, 7 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Weak Delete. Unless and until in-depth coverage in multiple, independent, reliable sources is shown, this article subject fails the general notability guidelines per WP:GNG.  As sports editors and AfD participants, we have become very loose and very sloppy in our thinking because we have started to presume there is such coverage for NCAA Division I Football Bowl Subdivision (FBS) programs (the old Division I-A), and now by extension to Division I Football Championship Subdivision (FCS) teams (the old Division I-AA).  There is no applicable specific notability guideline for college football seasons, no automatic "pass" or presumption of notability for the individual seasons of either FBS or FCS teams.  Liberty is among the newest and least established FCS programs, and among the least likely to generate significant, in-depth coverage apart from non-independent sources and the hometown newspaper.  We need to go through the full GNG analysis in this case.  If and when in-depth coverage in multiple, independent, reliable sources is shown to exist, apart from routine coverage and trivial mentions, I will be happy to change my !vote to "keep."  Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 15:46, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I might also add that there are also Liberty Flames football team season articles for 2010, 2011 and 2012. These articles appear to be likely candidates for a possible merge into a list of seasons, as a possible alternative to deletion, per WP:CFBSEASON.  Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 15:54, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I would support that.--Paul McDonald (talk) 16:10, 7 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Weak Keep Liberty is hardly the only FCS school that has individual years and this isn't the only Liberty. I don't think we should arbitrary delete certain schools pages. Something needs to be decided across the Wiki college football spectrum about individual seasons. In the future I wouldn't be opposed to merging the season into a page like "Liberty Flames football under Danny Rocco."--Southronite (talk) 19:56, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep. I've voted to "delete" on several "season" articles on Division II/III football programs, which often get little to no coverage.  But I think Paul had it right in his initial comment.  Press coverage is pervasive for football teams competing at the Division I level.  Moreover, the Liberty Flames have become an increasingly notable team in recent years (five Big South Conference championships since 2007).  The hiring of ex-Kansas coach Turner Gill in 2011 was a move toward transitioning the Flames to an even higher level of play.  Also, the program's affiliation with Jerry Falwell has resulted in the program probably getting more coverage than most Division I-FCS programs.  See, e.g., this from ESPN in 2011, this from Fox News in 2011, this from The Charlotte Observer in 2007, this from the Orlando Sentinel in 1995, this one from the Philadelphia Inquirer in 1994, this from The New York Times in 1994, this from the Austin American-Statesman in 1993.  As for the 2009 season, the team won the Big South Conference co-championship, and a Google news archive search reveals a good deal of coverage.  See, e.g., this, this, this, this,this, this, this, and this.  Cbl62 (talk) 06:19, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.