Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2011 Ukraine mine accidents


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep/rename. The situation has changed since this debate started, it is no longer original research or speculation to say that these are incidents are related, at least in the press. The suggestion that a broader article on mining in Ukraine is needed is something that should probably be explored further on the article talk page. Beeblebrox (talk) 16:19, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

2011 Ukraine mine accidents

 * – ( View AfD View log )

Article grouping together two un-notable and unrelated news items that coincidentally happened in the same country on the same day. Ohconfucius ¡digame! 02:07, 3 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Merge to Suhodolskaya-Vostochnaya coal mine and Bazhanova Coal Mine, the two mines where the accidents occurred. The accidents are notable events, but the existing articles provide a good context for encyclopedic coverage of the accidents. The coincidental occurrence of two accidents in one day is something that definitely necessitated dual coverage by world news media, but that news judgment does not mean that the two accidents should be covered in the same encyclopedia article. I've started the merger process by adding information about the accident to the S-V article. Similar additions are needed in the Bazhanova mine article, and both articles should mention the other accident that occurred on the same day. --Orlady (talk) 18:13, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ukraine-related deletion discussions.  — • Gene93k (talk) 19:53, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions.  — • Gene93k (talk) 19:54, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of News-related deletion discussions.  — • Gene93k (talk) 19:54, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

195.200.70.43 (talk) 06:06, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Merging the two entries to the relevant mine descriptions is a good idea and solves the issue as described in the entry above. Reading about a mine accident would require first some general technical remarks on that particular mine to better understand the background of the accident which can only be given on the relevant mine page.  In addition, the current page suggests already in the first line that "the 2011 mine accidents" in the Ukraine were the only two accidents that occured in 2011. However, one can be sure that there are more mines in the Ukraine in which accidents occured in that year.  The fact that the two accidents incidently happened on the same day does not indicate that the two accidents were linked.


 * Comment. My first reaction was to support merger. However, on 4 August a new deadly accident occured when methane leaked at the Krasnokutska coal mine. These accidents may be coincidents, but it seems that there are systematic problems with conditions and safety of Ukrainian mines. Therefore, keep it now and try to develop more broader article. If progress is not made, we could return to the AfD process. Beagel (talk) 13:31, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment. Yes, we can speculate about the possibility that the occurrence of several accidents in a short period of time might indicate systemic problems. I can also speculate that the occurrence of several incidents in a brief period might lead to regulatory changes, social protests, labor unrest, etc. However, until someone else (i.e., a reliable source) documents these relationships, that's just speculation (and original research), which cannot be the basis for creating or keeping a Wikipedia article. If and when someone else documents connections between the accidents, the article could be created again. --Orlady (talk) 16:54, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
 * This is not my speculation. Conditions of the Ukrainian coal mines are widely and long time discussed issue. These three accident are seen as a possible result of underinvestments e.g. by this article. But yes, if the article stays in its current form and describes only two accidents without wider background, it would be better to merge it into coal mines articles'. Beagel (talk) 18:51, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Perhaps it's time to create Coal mining in Ukraine (currently a redirect to Coal mining), similar to articles like Coal mining in the United States, Coal mining in India, etc. Such an article would provide better context for discussing the larger and long-term issues than this article about two accidents on the same day. --Orlady (talk) 16:50, 7 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete. Two unrelated incidents. Wikipedia is not the place to group arguably similar incidents together because it might show problems with the Ukrainian mining industry. Whether both incidents are actually worthy of an article or not is another matter, but they certainly should not be in the same one. wacky  wace  16:57, 6 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete; the events are apparently unrelated and already covered in the respective articles.  Sandstein   18:14, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 10:24, 12 August 2011 (UTC)




 * Keep: the link appears to be that the President has ordered an inquiry which will look into both events. For more sources, see here (BBC Ukrainian Service).  It Is Me Here  t /  c  13:59, 19 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Comment. Some time ago I merged information about the two accidents into the articles about the mines where the accidents occurred. I just now updated that information (more deaths had been confirmed) and added information to both articles about the other accident that occurred on the same day. In updating the information about the accidents, I found that there was another fatal accident (one killed, 25 injured) in a Ukrainian coal mine just 6 days later (August 4) and another fatal accident (two deaths reported) just yesterday (August 18). --Orlady (talk) 15:17, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep it seems that the president of the country joining the two together in an inquiry means that separate coverage is a disservice to readers and will lead to redundant information i both articles, with the difference in quality that entails. Better centralized information now that OR is out of the question based on new sourcing.--Cerejota (talk) 04:28, 20 August 2011 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.