Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2012 Paros (Greece) rape


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Note, previous AfD was under a different title, Articles for deletion/Waqas Ahmed -- RoySmith (talk) 13:39, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

2012 Paros (Greece) rape

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

WP:NOTNEWS. Does not meet WP:GNG. An utterly horrendous crime, no lasting significance. An encyclopaedia cannot cover every rape committed even if it is *gasp* committed by an "illegal" immigrant. As User:Huldra most eloquently wrote on the previous discussion "Seriously; if this had´t come in the "a Muslim did something very bad"-category; who would ever have thought of making an article about it?" Spot on. AusLondonder (talk) 01:03, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Greece-related deletion discussions. AusLondonder (talk) 01:07, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Pakistan-related deletion discussions. AusLondonder (talk) 01:07, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Crime-related deletion discussions. AusLondonder (talk) 01:07, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:29, 31 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete as per nominator's valid reason. Umais Bin Sajjad (talk) 04:42, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Politics-related deletion discussions. E.M.Gregory (talk) 11:08, 31 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep As noted in previous AFD (just 3 weeks ago) this has been a major national news story with continuous coverage in Greece for over 3 years where the rape of a local 15-year old by an illegal immigrant became a highly charged signifier at a time of burgeoning political tensions about the enormous wave of illegal immigrants arriving in Greece. Searches on America-based engines can underestimate the impact of events in Europe, especially when transliteration of spellings in different alphabets (Greek, Urdu) is an issue, as it is here. Similarity to Shooting of Kathryn Steinle was also noted in recent AFD.E.M.Gregory (talk) 10:33, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
 * comment Article is over-sourced because of the recent AFD. Anglophone editors who want to see the sort of place this case occupies in the Greek political conversation can look at this column in Kathimerini a leading Greek newpaper somewaht equivelant to the place th eNew York Times holds in the U.S. (when in Greece, if you pick up the international NYTimes, the English version of Kathimirini comes folded inside).E.M.Gregory (talk) 14:20, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
 * The previous AFD resulted in no consensus and a procedural keep, not keep and was fundamentally damaged by your disruptive behaviour of significantly changing the title and content, from a BLP to an event without even bothering to seek consensus. In 2014 24,043 rapes against both men and women were recorded by police forces in England and Wales, with a much higher figure when including unreported rapes and UK wide figures. I don't see you scrambling to create an article for each case. This proves that this article has always been about the immigrant Muslim side. AusLondonder (talk) 15:18, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
 * We cover the rapes which pass WP:GNG. R v Evans: Ched Evans is not a Muslim, but an international footballer, whose case also involved controversy on intoxication and consent. I guarantee that 99% of rapes by "normal" people of any colour were not covered as much as Evans'. Strawman burned. &#39;&#39;&#39;tAD&#39;&#39;&#39; (talk) 23:16, 4 September 2015 (UTC)
 * AFD referred to is Articles for deletion/Waqas Ahmed.E.M.Gregory (talk) 15:36, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Technically, the disruptive article move is the equivalent of article blanking while under AfD. Shame. Shame.-- &#9790;Loriendrew&#9789;  &#9743;(ring-ring)  00:34, 1 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep Sustained press coverage and impact make this article more than a news item. Dimadick (talk) 15:36, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep: We're not here to right great wrongs about what crimes are covered extensively in political debate. This one was. Should we delete the Delhi gang rape, because rapes are also done by white people? Or is there no room for the "I'm the real victim card" when the woman who was raped was also from South Asia? Ridiculous logic. &#39;&#39;&#39;tAD&#39;&#39;&#39; (talk) 22:53, 4 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Can you imagine the uproar if I AFD'd Alan Kurdi, saying


 * "WP:NOTNEWS. Does not meet WP:GNG. An utterly horrendous death, no lasting significance. An encyclopaedia cannot cover every child drowning even if it is *gasp* a "refugee" (your scaremarks on "illegal" suggested you were considering Ahmed to be the persecuted victim, when he was in fact a criminal in many ways; this is as bad as doubting whether someone is a legitimate refugee). As (insert name here) most eloquently wrote on the previous discussion "Seriously; if this had´t come in the "a non-white person went through hardship"-category; who would ever have thought of making an article about it?" Spot on"."


 * — the exact point the rape on Paros is notable is because the island is taking in migrants, making it a political issue when it turns out that unscreened people aren't all wonderful people. While kids drown every single day, Alan Kurdi is notable because his death became a political issue because it was part of the migration crisis. Bloody hell, trying to point to a rapist as the victimised one, critical theory has reached critical mass &#39;&#39;&#39;tAD&#39;&#39;&#39; (talk) 23:02, 4 September 2015 (UTC)


 * May I also point to the 1995 Okinawa rape incident. Of all the rapes in Japan, was this one just chosen to fit a "America did something wrong" agenda, or is it because it had an actual socio-political effect over whether an island should still house Americans? Like that, this article is notable for a socio-political effect about whether an island should still house migrants. We're not here to "right great wrongs". &#39;&#39;&#39;tAD&#39;&#39;&#39; (talk) 23:12, 4 September 2015 (UTC)
 * User:The Almightey Drill, I am not going to dignify your disgusting outburst. I will simply say I take extreme exception to your comments suggesting I am an apologist for rapists, which are a most serious violation of WP:NPA AusLondonder (talk) 05:07, 5 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Further see my comments at Articles for deletion/Palagonia double homicide regarding the POV-Pushing of this editor and the false nature of their smears. AusLondonder (talk) 05:36, 5 September 2015 (UTC)
 * That's it mate, no rebuttals, just "wow...I can't even". Your main reason for nominating this was a straw man that there aren't articles on other rapes, but there are per WP:GNG &#39;&#39;&#39;tAD&#39;&#39;&#39; (talk) 06:30, 5 September 2015 (UTC)
 * AusLondoner when you assert "this article has always been about the immigrant Muslim side", nominate it for deletion on the flimsy WP:OSE assertion that "encyclopaedia cannot cover every rape committed even if it is *gasp* committed by an "illegal" immigrant." And do it in the course of simultaneously nomination for deletion, an article about an Islamist terrorist attack, and an article about a SeaGlass Carousel created by an editor who worked on the other two articles.   It is not unreasonable to surmise that your are targeting editors and material giving attention to crimes that, yes, were committed by Muslims.  I and other editors think that the standard by which crimes should be judged is WP:GNG.   As I said on Articles for deletion/Jeremy Corbyn leadership campaign, 2015 I'm all about sources. If the topic is well-supported, it stays.  Even when, as with Jeremy Corbyn, I, personally, do not like his politics.  You are not required to write articles about Islamist gunmen who lay in ambush to murder any Jewish family that happens to drive past. Or about a brutal rape on a Greek island.  You are obliged, WP:BEFORE starting an AFD.   Likewise, while you are not obliged to work at AFD, when you do, your are obliged to give policy-based reasons and when offering an opinion on deletion, to go by the sources, not by whether you find the article politically congenial E.M.Gregory (talk) 15:26, 6 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep - Notable act of violence that reflects broader societal implications talked about by many sources. Compare with the articles: Shooting of Darren Goforth, Murder of Vincent Chin, Killing of Raed Zeiter, and Stabbing of Toyosi Shittabey. CoffeeWithMarkets (talk) 00:23, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I'd also like to point out, on political terms, that the situation fluctuates like a weather-vane depending on the article. Zeiter died at the hands of Israeli agents at a border crossing. Shittabey was attacked by Irish criminal thugs. Goforth's victimization is largely unclear, perhaps having no cause other than that some anti-cop psychopath felt like hurting someone. Chin seems to have run into anti-Asian racists. You can make of each thing whatever you want ideologically. The point is notability. CoffeeWithMarkets (talk) 00:28, 7 September 2015 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.