Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2013 Ethiopian Air Force An-12 crash


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. Opinions are divided about the incident's notability, so the article is kept by default.  Sandstein  09:44, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

2013 Ethiopian Air Force An-12 crash

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

Tragic but not notable military accident. ...William 14:43, 9 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Aviation-related deletion discussions....William 14:48, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions....William 14:48, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Somalia-related deletion discussions....William 14:48, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Transportation-related deletion discussions....William 14:48, 9 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Keep: While I tend to agree with the general statement that "military accidents are rarely notable", this accident may fall under the exceptions to that rule. For starters, the accident took place at a civilian airport unlike most military accidents. Furthermore, the cargo of the aircraft is noteworthy as it demonstrates Ethiopia's participation in the supply chain to AMISOM/Somali military forces prior to the formal acknowledgement/inclusion of Ethiopian troops into AMISOM in January 2014. When the Somali conflict eventually ends and its history is finally written, this accident may actually be seen as one of the catalysts that drove Ethiopia to formally join the AMISOM command structure. I believe that the accident meets Wikipedia's notability guidelines as it has received "significant coverage" from "reliable sources". Furthermore, as described above, it is likely to have "enduring historical significance" internationally, and unquestionably "widespread national impact" in Somalia and Ethiopia. Furthermore, as a fatal accident that occurred at a civilian airport, its inclusion in the various tables of aviation accidents helps contribute significantly to Wikipedia's value as a data resource SM105 (talk) 14:47, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment: User:Sm105, your observations about the political significance of this accident are interesting, but the article has no information on that. Are there refs available that support that? - Ahunt (talk) 15:23, 9 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete, per William above. While the comments by Sm105 are interesting, the article itself does not state its historical significance. The "significant coverage" and "reliable sources" aspects of the notability guidelines have to be weighed against policies like WP:NOTNEWS and WP:CRYSTALBALL (we can't assume it will be of historical significance). None of the victims were notable in their own right, and there have been no policy changes (yet: WP:CRYSTALBALL) as a result of this accident. Furthermore, the location of the accident does not lend it notability as a stand-alone article; at most it should be incorporated into the article for Dire Dawa Airport if the location of the accident is its source of notability. I don't even think this is notable enough for inclusion in one of the Lists of accidents and incidents involving military aircraft. -- Mûĸĸâĸûĸâĸû (blah?) 16:01, 9 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Keep: I think the article meets the notability guidelines. It indicates a significant turn around in the historical Ethiopian–Somali conflict from a millenia of animosity to the Ethiopian government supplying the Somali government with weapons and ammunition. 26oo (talk) 16:06, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment: But as I noted above the article doesn't say that. Where are the refs that support this? - Ahunt (talk) 16:20, 9 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete Not notable, and despite 2600 s assertion there is no indication of how this crash sparked or even indicates any change in the geopolitical situation in Somalia. A para in Antonov An-12 and/or List of accidents and incidents involving military aircraft (2010–present) is the most that this subject warrants. WP:NOTNEWS--Petebutt (talk) 02:40, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Nothing has changed, the article remains non-notable--Petebutt (talk) 13:21, 14 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete How rude it sounds, not enough victims to make it a disaster The Banner talk 14:14, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Redirect to List of accidents and incidents involving military aircraft (2010–present), where it is already mentioned. Ansh666 20:12, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep per Sm105. This incident is more than just a run of the mill accident; a national-level panel investigated the incident, which could lead to continuing poor bilateral relations between Somalia and Ethiopia. Bearian (talk) 17:38, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep per, whose claims are now incorporated into the article and referenced. Mjroots (talk) 21:19, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Really? Where? Ansh666 21:29, 11 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Keep, though more info is needed for this article. AcidSnow (talk) 00:34, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete nothing in the article indicates it has any notability as a military accident, far more common then civilian accidents so has a far higher bar to jump - it didnt kill anybody important, it didnt hit anything important. Nothing in the article indicates anything else of note, no reason why it cant be mentioned on related articles like List of Military Accidents but not a stand-alone article. MilborneOne (talk) 18:24, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.