Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2013 Harbin smog


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was speedy keep. As a closing note, please remember that our notability guidelines supersede essays like this. Numerous reliable sources have treated the event as if it were significant, and so will we. m.o.p 12:08, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

2013 Harbin smog

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How is this encyclopaedic in the least bit? Just because there are news sources doesnt mean its for an encycloapedic. It will be an orphan when off ITN. Smacks of RECENTISM, NOTNEWS Lihaas (talk) 14:54, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

All highways in the province were closed and there was major disruption to a city of 11 million people. Air pollution in the country is an embarrassment for the Politburo; one source provided in the article calls it "a constant source of public anger." There has been a tacit consensus to keep the following articles about air pollution events:


 * 1997 Southeast Asian haze
 * 2005 Malaysian haze
 * Great Smog
 * 1930 Meuse Valley fog
 * 1948 Donora smog
 * 2010 eruptions of Eyjafjallajökull
 * Air travel disruption after the 2010 Eyjafjallajökull eruption
 * Consequences of the April 2010 Eyjafjallajökull eruption &mdash; rybec   16:20, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep Per the links provided by rybec. It appears like this is the most severe case of smog in history. Ryan Vesey 16:39, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
 * It might be better to merge this into a larger article on the "airpocalypse" . Ryan Vesey 06:07, 23 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Keep plenty of sources are available to write a proper article. I think this should be snow closed as keep. Jehochman Talk 18:23, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep as there are clearly several sources demonstrating its international notability. You may want to review Notability (events), particularly the "inclusion criteria" section, as you have AFDd on similar grounds before. Teemu08 (talk) 18:57, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of China-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 20:50, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Environment-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 20:50, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 20:50, 22 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. 1997 Southeast Asian haze, 2005 Malaysian haze, and 2010 eruptions of Eyjafjallajökull were much larger geographic areas, so comparing those events to this is not accurate. The Great Smog affected a much larger city, and Visibility was reduced to a few yards, compared to the 50m reduction in Harbin, shows that the "Great Smog" was far worse. "1930 Meuse Valley fog" killed 60, "1948 Donora smog" killed 20, and honestly may qualify for an AFD as well. The Harbin Smog killed zero. The article also says that this is an annual occurrence in Harbin due to coal heating. The links provided above only serve to demonstrate what this event is not, which is notable compared to the others. Suggest snow close per WP:NOTNEWS. --76.110.201.132 (talk) 21:01, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
 * SNOW close only comes into play when the issue/opinion has no chance of success, which is not the case here as there are those who support keeping it. 331dot (talk) 12:03, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
 * The BBC quotes Xinhua as saying that "A red alert for thick smog had been issued in the provinces of Heilongjiang, Jilin and Liaoning [...]" . According to Wikipedia, Heilongjiang has an area of 454,800 km2 whereas Malaysia has an area of 329,847 km2. The satellite photo at shows the pollution covering a large geographical area. By "much larger city" do you mean the area or the population? Metropolitan London today has a population of roughly 15 million, but it may have been fewer in 1952. The total population of Heilongjiang, Jilin and Liaoning is probably more than 100 million, whereas that of Malaysia was around 28 million at the last census. While I haven't read any reports of sickness or death from the current pollution in China, it seems rather too soon to declare that "the Harbin Smog killed zero." &mdash;  rybec   23:46, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Note that this person is the nominator MarioNovi (talk) 04:49, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
 * No, I wasn't the nominator. That is Lihaas. I found another story saying that "almost all monitoring stations in Heilongjiang, Jilin and Liaoning provinces reported readings above 200 for PM2.5" on 23 October. &mdash; rybec   05:34, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I am sorry I made a mistake. MarioNovi (talk) 06:12, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
 * keep Alot of sources, I agree with all keeps above. Thank you, MarioNovi (talk) 04:49, 23 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Keep. Record air pollution affecting 100 million people seems like a no-brainer to keep.  As stated above, we have other articles about past air pollution events. 331dot (talk) 11:59, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.