Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2014–15 Russian military intervention in Ukraine (3rd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   speedy keep. Not seeing any rationale for deletion, valid or not, in this rant. (non-admin closure) ansh 666 08:15, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

2014–15 Russian military intervention in Ukraine
AfDs for this article: Articles for deletion/Russian invasion of CrimeaArticles for deletion/2014 Russian military intervention in Ukraine
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Header added -- John of Reading (talk) 06:53, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

This page has a matter of fact tone regarding accusations that have yet to be proven with solid evidence. Examples:

Putin's exact words about Crimea were that the Russian troops (referring to troops stationed by a previous agreement with Ukraine) supported the Crimean self defense forces (aka the little green men). The Western media spun the presence of previously stationed troops, into the use of the previously stationed troops to occupy Crimea. There has yet to be any tangible proof of this, and "Putin's confession" is a misinterpretation.

The claims of Russia using artillery to bombard Ukraine's forces have not been proven in any way, other than satelite photos of Russian military exercises, where Russian artillery is pointed in the direcion of Ukraine. It is only natural, if Russia was to hold military exercises near a border, to point the weapons in the direction of the border. They're exercising to defend their borders, and possibly counterattack, why would they point their weapons in the direction of Russia? The published photos never showed an artillery piece actually firing, but even if they did, they would also have to have accurate timestamps of the artillery firing, calculated trajectories, and the resulting crater from the shell to build a valid case to prove that that particular artillery piece actually fired at a specific point, at a specific time.

NATO photos of Russia transporting tanks to the DPR and LPR consisted of a photo of tanks standing next to trailers, then tanks on trailers, then no tanks or trailers. Coincidentally, these photos were taken at the same time when Russia was finishing a military exercise, and the Russian forces were returning to base.

While "NATO claims" or "NATO says" may sound more credible than the Ukraine defense minister claiming Russia used nukes, a claim or accusation is nothing without proof.

PLEASE don't go along with the western mass media war against Russia. Keep Wiki neutral. If a page is expressing accusations, claims, and opinions, it should be clearly named, and marked as such.

Suggested page names: Alleged 2014–15 Russian military intervention in Ukraine Accusations of 2014–15 Russian military intervention in Ukraine Claims of 2014–15 Russian military intervention in Ukraine

Suggested content: Accusations, or Claims subsection - sentences that start with NATO accuses, NATO says, Ukraine claims, etc...) Proof or Evidence subsection - Any proof or evidence of events actually occuring, preferably objectively filtered to exclude random photos that prove noting except that Russia has troops near the Ukrainian border Defendant's claims subsection - things like Russia's admission and apology of a Russian convoy accidentally crossing the Russian-Ukrainian border while on patrol. Might I add, that Ukrainian forces routinely crossed the Russian Ukrainian border into Russia, and were allowed to pass through without any interferance from Russian troops.

If you want a trial of Russia vs Ukraine on the matter, then treat it as such. None of this mass mob, "he said, she said, therefore Russia is guilty", and if you want a trial, then keep in mind that most wertern countries assume innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around.


 * Strongly KEEP. Explanation is simple. Ukraine consists of 27 regions, Ukraine signed number of international treaties including Russia, Russia brought its troops on the Ukrainian soil (including Autonomous Republic of Crimea) without prior arrangements. How is that called as not invasion? Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 03:21, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Articles for deletion/Log/2015 January 20.  —cyberbot I   Talk to my owner :Online 07:19, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment - This unsigned AfD was created by User:Mishaparem. ansh 666 08:13, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.