Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2014 Jerusalem tractor attack (3rd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep (withdrawn). See. Reyk YO!  10:39, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

2014 Jerusalem tractor attack
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This article has been nominated twice (the last time by a sock), and both times it was "no consensus". The early noms were both close to the date of the attack. Now that a year has passed, we can judge the matter more easily. The arguments based on WP:NOTNEWS are validated. I can't find a mention, even a trivial or in passing one, for this in 2015. There is no "lasting impact" for this, geographically, or as catalyst for something else, so WP:EVENT applies. The WP:DIVERSE argument is very weak because all the diverse sources are simply about a news story, and do not discuss this after the initial period. Most of the sources cited are Israeli and/or Jerusalem-based. Kingsindian &#9821;&#9818; 13:58, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Withdrawn, per comments below. Kingsindian &#9821;&#9818; 20:48, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Israel-related deletion discussions. Kingsindian &#9821;&#9818; 14:02, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Palestine-related deletion discussions. Kingsindian &#9821;&#9818; 14:02, 13 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Merge this and several other found in Vehicular assault as a terrorist tactic into a common article (or articles by year). There is nothing specific that warrants in individual article, and, besides the detail of incident, they are rather repetitive: "Netaniahu said this", there were 360 more attacks, etc. etc. For example 2008 Jerusalem bulldozer attack already describes 4 various ramming attacks, the first one in detail, thee more as "Aftermath". - üser:Altenmann >t 15:24, 13 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep. As this has already been the topic of two previous discussions, I'll limit my comments to the new arguments brought forth by the current nominator.
 * 'I can't find a mention, even a trivial or in passing one, for this in 2015' - this is probably the result of a half hearted search attempt. My own simple searches conducted today for a few minutes resulted in this example from 2015: The lone wolf finally comes to India. This not only shows lasting coverage (2105) but is important in two other respects: it reinforces the WP:DIVERSE argument (Indian sources, coverage far beyond the local region), as well as WP:PERSISTENCE - the event is cited as a case study for a phenomena of 'lone-wolf terrorist', alongside other high-profile and clearly notable events like the Boston Marathon bombing, which meets "If an event is cited as a case study in multiple sources after the initial coverage has died down, this may be an indication of lasting significance." This aspect of the attack ("Lone wolf") was also mentioned, months after the attack, in another 2015 article  about lone wolf terrorism, in a major British newspaper What is behind Israel's spate of 'lone wolf' terror attacks?. It was also highlighted in an Haaretz article, months later, dedicated to the 'lone-wolf' phenomena: The Dangerous, Unpredictable Anomaly of East Jerusalem. Again, WP:PERSISTENCE, WP:DIVERSE, WP:GEOSCOPE
 * 'There is no "lasting impact" for this, geographically, or as catalyst for something else' - this, again, is false. The above example shows geographical dispersion, and as an example being a catalyst for something else, I'll present the following two source, from months after the event:
 * IDF demolishes home of terrorist behind light rail attack in J'lem - this article, dated more than 3 months after the initial coverage died down, cites the event as one in a series of attacks that caused the Israeli government to reverse a long-standing policy of refraining from executing house demolitions, and renew them in Jerusalem ("This is the first demolition carried out by the IDF on the home of a terrorist in East Jerusalem...Netanyahu gave the order to demolish the homes of the terrorists involved in the attack. Similar orders were given following other attacks that took place recently, but were not executed,")
 * Army to Demolish East Jerusalem Home of 'digger Attack' Terrorist's Family - similar to the above.
 * Court suspends home demolition of would-be assassin - (This, incidentally is the THIRD 2015 mention of the event.)
 * Court suspends razing of home of Palestinian shooter (and this is the FOURTH 2015 mention, Kingsindian. This is the difference between a half hearted attempt at finding (or rather NOT finding) sources, vs., a serious one seeking to find coverage)
 * Israel to raze homes of Palestinian attackers in J'lem - Palestinian press coverage
 * US condemns terrorist home demolition directive - ties this event to previous terrorist activities by members of same family
 * Another example of WP:PERSISTENCE are the following three articles
 * Terrorism with an Israeli ID card
 * FEAR THY NEIGHBOR
 * both of these are months after the initial coverage has died down, and both cite this event as a case study, in two different articles devoted to the phenomena of terrorism by Arab residents of Israel who have greater freedom of movement and easier access to both 'weapons' and targets as a result of having an Israeli ID card. The second article shows geographical diversity and impact (US/Los Angeles based news magazine). The first article was picked up by multiple foreign sources s well . Again this is text-book WP:PERSISTENCE - "If an event is cited as a case study in multiple sources after the initial coverage has died down, this may be an indication of lasting significance."
 * The event is also mentioned in subsequent reports about different attacks, of a similar nature - see e.g
 * Finally, there is another notable aspect of this event that resulted in subsequent coverage- in an amazing display of chutzpa, the family members of the the murdering terrorist are actually suing the Israeli police for damages, with a bizarre theory that he was killed for no reason, and that subsequently his dead body managed to work the controls of the tractor and to flip the bus over, and this case wound its way to the Israeli supreme court, resulting in multiple stories in the Israeli press and international Jewish press, for example:
 * High Court takes accident claim seriously in presumed bulldozer terror attack
 * Israel To Compensate Terrorist's Family?
 * Jerusalem - Court Rejects Petition To Declare Home Demolitions Illegal
 * In short, there is clearly demonstrated WP:PERSISTENCE, WP:DIVERSE, WP:LASTING and WP:GEOSCOPE. Brad Dyer (talk) 17:17, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Brad Dyer's comments unfortunately do not add up to his conclusion. Congratulations to him in finding a single trivial and brief mention in report in a random Indian e-magazine, but that does not translate to WP:DIVERSE (do you know how many e-magazines exist in India?). I have no idea what that magazine is and what its editorial policies are. The telegraph source is fine, but it is again a very brief and passing mention, together with 11 other attacks. I notice that he has not mentioned any other source in 2015, probably because he couldn't find any. I would be happy to be proved wrong. The brief and trivial mention is the opposite of a case study which he states.
 * Secondly, many of his sources are trash. IsraelHayom.com and IsraelNationalNews.com (Arutz Sheva) have been repeatedly rejected as non-RS in this area. I have no idea what WinstonIsraelNews.com, or Brabosh.com are, but they are certainly not WP:RS. He even linked to a post on a random message forum. "Wtf?" is my only reply to that.
 * The non-trash sources are simply some Israeli and/or Jerusalem-based newspaper sources from 2014 which tangentially mention the attack during some other terrorist attack. This does not in any way meet the requirements for WP:PERSISTENCE or WP:DIVERSE, and fails WP:NOTNEWS. Kingsindian &#9821;&#9818; 18:26, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Your comments would carry more weight if you used a little less hyperbole and a lot more accuracy in making them. Governance Now is not just an e-Magazine, but a bi-weekly print magazine. The article I  found on-line was also published in the  January 1-15, 2015, print issue, as is clearly stated at the bottom of the story. Saying ' finding a single trivial and brief mention', when you know very well that I found two 2015 mentions is disingenuous, at best.
 * Israel Hayom is the largest circulation Israeli daily. It employs some of Israel's best known and respected journalists, including Dan Margalit (politics), Yoav Kutner (music), Boaz Bismuth (international news), Shlomo Scharf (sports). Saying that it is "trash" reveals that you are clueless abut Israel Hayaom, and probably not fully aware of the requirements for reliable sources. It is false that it was found as non-RS. There is certainly a large contingent of editors going around claiming that Arutz 7 is not reliable, because it presents the viewpoint of a certain segment of Israeli society whose politics they don't like, but there has never been a policy-based determination at WP:RSN , by disinterested editors, that it is not a reliable source. The above is a great example of a Red herring, since the sources I found include The Telegraph, Haaretz, The Jerusalem Post and Ynet - all unquestionably reliable sources. They covered the event months after initial coverage died down and used it as a case study for showing trends (terrorism by Israeli ID-carrying Arabs) or phenomena (lone wolf terrorism), exactly as WP:PERSISTENCE requires. They subsequently covered other aspects of this case - such as the court action undertaken by the terrorist's family, or the destruction of their home, something you somehow overlooked. This article clearly and unambiguously meets and exceeds WP:PERSISTENCE and WP:DIVERSE. Brad Dyer (talk) 19:08, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I reject many of your arguments, however, the angle about resumption of house demolition as a result of this (and other) attacks is persuasive. I did not know about this, nor is it present in the article, but your sources about this, together with an Amnesty International report here also mentioning this (not by name, but the date August 4 matches). That certainly qualifies as "lasting impact", so I will withdraw this nomination. Thanks. Kingsindian &#9821;&#9818; 20:48, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Crime-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 17:22, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 17:22, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Terrorism-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 17:22, 13 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep as notable, as testified to by no less than 32 sources, and also because it is part of the "Prominent terrorist attacks against Israelis in the 2010s" template. Debresser (talk) 17:26, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep - plenty of sourcing, notability through WP:GNG.--BabbaQ (talk) 19:07, 13 August 2015 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.