Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2016 Fort Myers nightclub shooting


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete.  Sandstein  07:31, 13 August 2016 (UTC)

2016 Fort Myers nightclub shooting

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Fails WP:N. WP:NOTNEWS. With a few exceptions, mostly local, the media have moved on. No connection to umbrella social issues. If editor interest reflects media interest, two editors have made two minor edits in the past 48 hours, and the article is still slightly more than a stub. Another crime that was sensational enough to make the national news for a couple of days. &#8213; Mandruss  &#9742;  20:59, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

* Keep or merge - I concur with TracyMcClark, that the media is busy with National Conventions. That being said, if the article cannot be kept, it should be redirected to Lee County Sheriff's Office (Florida). --Jax 0677 (talk) 22:33, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Comment - Likely delete but I suggest to let it run the full 7 days as the media was busy with the RNC and now the DNC and might pick up on the story afterwards.--TMCk (talk) 21:56, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Why on earth would it be redirected to the Lee County Sheriff's Office? The crime happened in the city of Fort Myers and the Fort Myers Police Department is the agency with primary jurisdiction. Niteshift36 (talk) 22:54, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
 *  Reply - nvm --Jax 0677 (talk) 22:57, 28 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete. The media was there. I was personally at the scene and there were almost as many reporters and news trucks as there were mourners. Reporters from CNN down to the FGCU paper and bloggers. (yeah, I know that's not a RS, not the point). It wasn't lack of attention or the conventions diverting attention. It's a case of the 24 hour news cycle flooding it for a cycle and then watching the coverage drop off, as predicted. There will be a predictable local blip when someone comes up for trial, but there won't be continuing coverage. WP:RECENTISM and WP:NOTNEWS apply. Niteshift36 (talk) 22:48, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Of course the media was there at first but they are likely too busy for a follow-up. We'll see in 7 days (or less) if there is more to come. Doesn't hurt to follow protocol.--TMCk (talk) 22:56, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
 * There was more there than I expected to be honest. And they stayed the entire day. I've predicted the drop off all along. Niteshift36 (talk) 03:53, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Crime-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:04, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:04, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Florida-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:04, 29 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete – WP:NOTNEWS; although they may have a follow up about the shooters motivation (which wasn't terrorism), I don't see it passing WP:N anytime soon. Per arguments of Mandruss' last line.  Adog 104  Talk to me 20:08, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:NOTNEWS. It may have been notable at first given the similar-sounding 2016 Orlando nightclub shooting, but as the coverage died down and we got more details on what happened, I doubt this is going to stay notable for long. Parsley Man (talk) 23:23, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete. No link to terrorism, racism, or any other -ism. WWGB (talk) 11:56, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete shooting happened in a dangerous part of town where these types of events are frequent. Outside the venue, no different from any other shooting. Prevan (talk) 19:19, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
 * 'Delete per WP:NOTNEWS....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 16:23, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep as a mass shooting well covered by national media after the largest mass shooting in American history (also in a Floridian nightclub). WP:NOTNEWS is irrelevant. 184.90.237.3 (talk) 18:32, 31 July 2016 (UTC) — 184.90.237.3 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Why is it irrelevant? Niteshift36 (talk) 19:10, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
 * after the largest mass shooting in American history (also in a Floridian nightclub) - If you're suggesting that this article inherits even a little notability from 2016 Orlando nightclub shooting, you're quite mistaken. If you're not, I don't see how that part of your comment bears on this discussion. &#8213; Mandruss  &#9742;  20:36, 31 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Keep: Large number of victims, lots of coverage, reactions by major figures. Beejsterb (talk) 01:01, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Lot's of short-term coverage doesn't establish notability. As NOTNEWS says, most newsworthy events aren't notable. Aside from the obligatory reactions from the governor and AG, which figures are you referring to? Niteshift36 (talk) 01:47, 1 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete. A horrific shooting with no indication of any major implications or long-lasting effects to propel this past the WP:NOTNEWS zone. GABgab 01:47, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Comment - some of the article should be merged into Fort Myers or something because I believe that it is notable enough to at least have a mention. Beejsterb (talk) 03:35, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I honestly don't think it should. This is very similar to a shooting nearly a year ago . A spike in national coverage, which died off quickly, then the local coverage died off. Gets mentioned once in a while as still being unsolved. In the overall, this event, like the Zombiecon shooting, will likely barely be a footnote in the city history. Niteshift36 (talk) 03:45, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I don't think it should, either. There are no other crimes listed there, so this one shouldn't be included unless it's the worst in the city's 150-year history. Let's try to maintain a sense of proportion and avoid WP:RECENTISM. &#8213; Mandruss  &#9742;  14:44, 4 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Keep - per good sourcing, per relatively high number of deaths, per extensive coverage by media. NOTNEWS does not apply as Wikipedia is based on news. --BabbaQ (talk) 12:36, 4 August 2016 (UTC)
 * High number of deaths? There were 2 deaths. Sadly, that's not a high number at all. And while Wikipedia actually is not based on news, the guideline you dismiss specifically says that most newsworthy events are not notable. Niteshift36 (talk) 13:29, 4 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Policy, not guideline. &#8213; Mandruss  &#9742;  14:49, 4 August 2016 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Delete obviously WP:NOTNEWS, maybe mentionable in a list but doesnt qualify for an article.--Savonneux (talk) 13:40, 4 August 2016 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, &mdash; Coffee //  have a cup  //  beans  // 10:40, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Clearer consensus? After you eliminate the Keep arguments that are wrong on their face (e.g. 2=relatively high number of deaths), there isn't much left. Consensuses don't get much clearer than this at Wikipedia. It ran for the full 7 days per 's early comment. There have been 6 edits since I nominated eight days ago, averaging 0.75 edits per day, and the article is still slightly more than a stub. This has had ample due process and it's time to move on. &#8213; Mandruss  &#9742;  17:48, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
 * If having a discussion last 7 more days is really that stressful for you, perhaps you should take a wikibreak for the remaining duration. &mdash; Coffee //  have a cup  //  beans  // 15:22, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I don't see how you reached that conclusion from my comments, but thanks for the concern anyway. &#8213; Mandruss  &#9742;  15:24, 6 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete Not encyclopedic in its isolated form. Supraregional news covering has almost stopped after a day, except for local news. It could however have its place in Fort Myers in a paragraph on crime rates: 54th on top100 dangerous in 2016, and since several years around position 50  and   --Havang(nl) (talk) 16:07, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
 * If Neighborhood Scout was a reliable source. Niteshift36 (talk) 18:36, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Just a reference to start with, and another site says «it’s up-to-date and accurate».--Havang(nl) (talk) 07:16, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
 * A non-RS says that another non-RS is reliable? Well that solves everything. Want the technical answer? First, NeighborhoodScout uses numbers for areas outside of the city limits. Since the article in question is about the CITY of Fort Myers, it is skewed. Second, the presumption is that all crimes are equal. An Aggravated assault and a murder aren't equal since you can actually be convicted of an aggravated assault without ever even touching the person, much less causing serious injury. Third, they claim to separate out "armed robbery", while the FBI generally lumps in all robberies as a single classification. Niteshift36 (talk) 18:04, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I kind of see that as a separate and independent issue from this AfD, debatable at Talk:Fort Myers, Florida. My ADD brain likes nice, neat, organized boxes. If you disagree, carry on. &#8213; Mandruss  &#9742;  19:06, 7 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Comment: Even local coverage has pretty much evaporated. Niteshift36 (talk) 16:45, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete  – Widespread national news coverage was just not there for this one. Even though I did contribute a little to this article I knew that if it got here I would support a deletion; this pretty much fails WP:N and WP: NOTNEWS. United States Man (talk) 22:21, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep. I think there was sufficiently widespread coverage.  DGG ( talk ) 02:18, 13 August 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.