Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2017 Lesotho Defence Force helicopter crash


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Merge proposals etc. may be evaluated at talk page. (non-admin closure) Winged Blades Godric  07:48, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

2017 Lesotho Defence Force helicopter crash

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To quote the person who Proded this article- "No evidence that this accident is noteworthy for a stand-alone article, helicopter crashes are not rare particularly military operated ones. Really needs to be the cause of death of a wiki notable person or another notable feature to have an article." This crash is tragic but not notable. ...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 17:31, 6 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Africa-related deletion discussions. ...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 17:32, 6 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Aviation-related deletion discussions. ...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 17:32, 6 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. ...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 17:32, 6 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. ...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 17:32, 6 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Transportation-related deletion discussions. ...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 17:32, 6 May 2017 (UTC)
 * delete per nom.Icewhiz (talk) 18:19, 6 May 2017 (UTC)


 * I am the author of the article, and as I explained on its talk page, I fail to see where we have an explicit requirement that such articles need to be 'the cause of death of a wiki notable person or another notable feature' - that seems vague to say the least. If you look at our 2017 and 2016 articles for aircraft incidents, you will see quite a few that are just AS notable as this one. I understand why private planes and helicopters don't fit the shoe, but in this case it's a country with a very small air force, and one where accidents don't generally happen that often, so there is some notability to it IMO. The other articles serve as a precedent, so unless there is a specific rule that I am missing, we either have to enforce the same rules to all older articles and lose a LOT of them, or come up with some sort of compromise. Just my two cents. Skycycle (talk) 22:04, 6 May 2017 (UTC)
 * The standard is WP:AIRCRASH and precedents don't count for much (WP:Other stuff exists); however it being a country with a very small air force counts as another notable feature. Hawkeye7 (talk) 04:37, 7 May 2017 (UTC)
 * As Hawkeye7 stated - see WP:AIRCRASH. As these being part of the Lesotho Defence Force - sorry, I don't see how this counts for much. The Lesotho air wing is really just a general aviation wing that isn't expected to carry out any role in a war (As Lesotho is landlocked and surrounded completely by the much larger South Africa - in any conceivable military conflict with South Africa, aviation wouldn't last for more than a day (the ground forces might do marginally better, and might be able to put up an irregular/guerrilla campaign afterwards) - it might carry out some role in an irregular conflict with local rebels, but otherwise seems to be mostly geared for regular governmental transport - it is borderline itself for an article (which it doesn't have - is included with Lesotho Defence Force - a small organization overall - as per article 3,100 personnel). Being part of a marginal, non-useful (in any organized international conflict, possible use vs. internal rebels), military of a marginal country - doesn't make this crash more notable than others - if at all less notable. Police helicopters crash all the time - if the crash isn't notable in terms of damage on the ground, specific fatalities (notable victims), or a large amount of victims (e.g. a Sikorsky CH-53 Sea Stallion or Boeing CH-47 Chinook which can lead to a high double-digit body count) - it isn't notable.Icewhiz (talk) 07:04, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Weak keep The crash of an aircraft belonging to a very small air force which resulted in multiple fatalities is likely to have lasting notability. Nick-D (talk) 23:54, 6 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep - as per Nick-D's comment the incident had a big impact on Lesotho's airforce and with the investigation ongoing there is a strong possibility the content of the article will be expanded soon. If the final discussion here is more leaning twords delete than keep, I'd advise the closing admin to please consider a Mergeing of the content of this article to the Lesotho Defence Force. Inter&#38;anthro (talk) 13:16, 7 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete - no significant ongoing coverage, just news reports and then silence concerning the subject. It might be worth mentioning in the Lesotho Defence Force article (and I am not sure that it should be), but it certainly doesn't warrant a stand-alone article. YSSYguy (talk) 03:03, 11 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete per my statement when I proposed deletion "No evidence that this accident is noteworthy for a stand-alone article, helicopter crashes are not rare particularly military operated ones. Really needs to be the cause of death of a wiki notable person or another notable feature to have an article." Nothing has emerged since that shows anything noteworthy. MilborneOne (talk) 18:13, 11 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete -- no societal impact or lasting significance. K.e.coffman (talk) 23:40, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Winged Blades Godric  15:50, 14 May 2017 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Weak Keep as per Nick-D. I think it would be appropriate to include this incident in Lists_of_accidents_and_incidents_involving_military_aircraft. Whilst this event probably falls fractionally short of WP:AIRCRASH, it is nevertheless brief, well written and appears adequately referenced. Whilst I'm unaware of any policy encouraging comparison of short factual articles like this one with innumerable and lengthy ones about trivial fictional characters or C-grade social media personalities, I think it just about stands up to scrutiny against them. Nick Moyes (talk) 01:49, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Lourdes  15:30, 22 May 2017 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Weak keep or better Merge the content of this article to the Lesotho Defence Force. I think some of the arguments for deletion have a big country bias. It is significant for a small country's defense forces to be sure but it is hard to see why a single helicopter crash should have an article of its own. It will have a proper context in the Lesotho Defense Force article Elmmapleoakpine (talk) 21:37, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Yashovardhan (talk) 09:17, 30 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Merge to Lesotho Defence Force. It is a significant incident for the Lesotho Defence Force, but doesn't require its own article. Better to move the contents.Seaweed (talk) 12:55, 30 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Merge and redirect per comments above Nördic   Nightfury  13:35, 6 June 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.