Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2018–19 Hartlepool United F.C. season


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Given that the keep votes amount to little more than "it would be nice not have a gap", I'm not see8ng anything that answers the notability challenge. Fenix down (talk) 22:41, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

2018–19 Hartlepool United F.C. season

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

Season article for a club in a non-fully professional league at the fifth level – fails WP:NSEASONS. We have had numerous AfDs on these types of articles and virtually all have resulted in deletion (see this recent one, in which many more are cited). Also nominating 2017–18 Hartlepool United F.C. season for the same reason. Both were prodded, but deprodded without an explanation as to why. Number  5  7  14:05, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. North America1000 14:07, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of England-related deletion discussions. North America1000 14:08, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. North America1000 14:08, 20 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Keep We have articles for the preceding seasons:
 * 2010–11 Hartlepool United F.C. season
 * 2011–12 Hartlepool United F.C. season
 * 2012–13 Hartlepool United F.C. season
 * 2013–14 Hartlepool United F.C. season
 * 2014–15 Hartlepool United F.C. season
 * 2015–16 Hartlepool United F.C. season
 * 2016–17 Hartlepool United F.C. season
 * It doesn't make sense to have gaps in the record for a club with a long history like this. And the worst case would be merger into a consolidation such as List of Hartlepool United F.C. seasons.  Applicable policies including WP:ATD; WP:NOTPAPER and WP:PRESERVE all indicate that, now we have articles about the seasons, it best to keep them and that deletion would be quite inappropriate. Andrew🐉(talk) 14:31, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
 * In those seasons the club was playing in a fully-professional league and WP:NSEASONS was met. The example of another AfD (that resulted in delete) given above was for Leyton Orient, who were in the same situation as Hartlepool (in terms of being a former Football League club who dropped out). There is also no certainty that Hartlepool will ever regain Football League status and had this argument been used for Nelson or Glossop North End, we have nearly 100 years of NSEASONS-failing articles for them. Number   5  7  14:36, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
 * WP:NSEASONS does not suggest that such articles should be deleted. It says that they are certainly kept at the highest level and may be consolidated if the notability is weaker.  Furthermore, I notice that the nominator did not notify the creator of these pages – neither for the PROD nor this deletion discussion.  As the page was accepted by AfC, the new editor is likely to feel aggrieved at such inconsistent and unpleasant treatment.  As the nominator seems to be familiar with Wikimedia UK, they may like to know of a talk given at its recent AGM by Pigsonthewing with the theme that "Wiki hates newbies".  See WP:BITE for more details. Andrew🐉(talk) 14:50, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
 * The linked AfD (and all the ones mentioned in that) show that there is a clear consensus that these articles do fail WP:NSEASONS.
 * Regarding the secondary issue, the problem is that the page should not have been accepted by the AfC reviewer in the first place. Being a new editor does not mean notability guidelines are relaxed to avoid hurting their feelings. Number   5  7  15:02, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
 * No, the other old case shows that other editors agree with my view that WP:NSEASONS does not require deletion and the text of WP:NSEASONS does not say so either. What matters most in such cases is policy and WP:ATD is quite clear, "If editing can improve the page, this should be done rather than deleting the page. ... Disputes over page content are usually not dealt with by deleting the page". Andrew🐉(talk) 15:16, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
 * What? 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 AfDs all resulted in delete. 1 resulted in keep because it met GNG. Number   5  7  15:41, 20 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom, fails GNG and NSEASONS. GiantSnowman 15:15, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
 * The seasons get press coverage and so they pass WP:GNG. For example, see Northern Echo. Andrew🐉(talk) 15:23, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
 * A brief overview by the local paper? Wow! Where's the significant coverage? GiantSnowman 16:03, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
 * The same source is used for all those other season articles which you're fine with. No difference. Andrew🐉(talk) 09:18, 21 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Redirect to List of Hartlepool United F.C. seasons. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!&#33;!&#33;) 06:59, 21 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep i understand that the league is that they play in rn isn't as high-level as in the past, but would argue that the legacy of the team (over 100 years) and that they've only played in it for like the most recent couple years should supersede the fact that the league isn't top-tier. would be weird if they are promoted to have a gab of a couple of years. Epluribusunumyall (talk) 11:03, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
 * The article fails our notability guidelines. There is also no way of knowing that this is a 'gap'. For all we know, the club may never return to the Football League like Glossop North End or Nelson. Number   5  7  12:50, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Hello, the editor here. I'm very disappointed with the decision to delete this page. These two articles were the first that have been made by me so I was very pleased when they passed the initial process at a good standard. The decision to delete this page seems ridiculous frankly. Currently, approximately I believe that around 20 of the 24 teams in the National League are professional teams. Furthermore, the support for this league has grown massively over the last 10 years. Matches are regularly streamed live on BT Sport nationally and attendances are increasing. Hartlepool United's fan base regularly averages over 3,300 which is higher than several teams in both League 1 and League 2: despite being smaller than fellow National League sides of Notts County, Chesterfield, Wrexham and Stockport County. Moreover, I would like to add that the reasons that Glossop or Nelson have never returned to the EFL is due to their much lower support. This would imply that these teams are not sustainable enough to return to the Football League. In recent years, almost all of the teams relegated from the EFL return within at least 7 years (even with smaller supported teams such as Macclesfield Town). Overall, after the hard work to make and publish the article it seems like a complete waste of time to delete an article, to leave gaps on the List of Hartlepool United F.C. seasons and to demotivate new editors such as myself. User: Michaeldble 17:44, 27 July 2020 (UTC)
 * There will be no gap in List of Hartlepool United F.C. seasons caused by deleting the article we're discussing here – the article is not even linked from the list. I'm sorry if you feel demotivated, but we cannot accept articles that fail to meet our notability guidelines just to keep new editors happy. Number   5  7  17:40, 27 July 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.