Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2018 Burgwedel stabbing


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. The consensus is that the sources available indicate that the subject is notable. Some editors qualified their support for keeping this article, stating that since the event occurred only recently, its lasting significance is still uncertain; as a result, another discussion on the suitability of this article may be appropriate in the future (but not immediately after this one). Mz7 (talk) 01:03, 17 April 2018 (UTC)

2018 Burgwedel stabbing

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Doesn't appear to be a notable event. The aftermath section is about a Facebook post by the city. power~enwiki ( π, ν ) 01:53, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Germany -related deletion discussions.  We Are All  Here   talk  01:55, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Crime -related deletion discussions.  We Are All  Here   talk  01:56, 9 April 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete - WP:NOTNEWS Acnetj (talk) 06:51, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete - Sounds like news, reads like news, and feels like news; safe to say it is news, but Wikipedia is not news. Anyone who claims crimes do not somehow apply should read our criteria for events: A violent crime, accidental death, or other media events may be interesting enough to reporters and news editors to justify coverage, but this will not always translate into sufficient notability for a Wikipedia article. Attempting to claim RAPID--the only actual "rationale" to keep--assumes there will be notability in the future and that is obvious crystalballing.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 07:41, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep (for now) This "spate" or string of knife attacks don't make this independently notable. But I am a realist and know some editors like breaking news, especially on very certain types of crimes. So, as with other crimes, I will wait when RAPID can't be used as an excuse and a more legitimate discussion can take place--either back at AFD or with a selective merge.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 14:19, 16 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Having expressed you opinion that this crime is not notable, I advise you not to start a merge on that talk page in a few months because it can look like an an attempt to delete an article you DONOTLIKE stealthily. An article that has been through a contested AdD should probably be taken back to AfD if an editor feels compelled to contest notability a 2nd time.E.M.Gregory (talk) 17:06, 16 April 2018 (UTC)
 * , as you commonly say, WP:AGF. If you think that is the purpose of a merge discussion, you clearly do not understand the process.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 18:28, 16 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Oh, but I do. In contested subject areas, articles are merged, then specifics and sources are deleted, text reduced, and an editor makes a comment like: ("this is not "list of crimes committed by individual immigrants") as he deletes the material (crime) from the page.E.M.Gregory (talk) 18:36, 16 April 2018 (UTC)

Here I haven't even heard about this crime. Tragic and sad for the victim and her family, but it was at most regional, if not local, news. So here I would advocate a delete. --ObersterGenosse (talk) 15:18, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete as WP:NOTNEWS. Coolabahapple (talk) 21:28, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep Nationwide coverage, notable politicians commented on it, still ongoing coverage (media reported only 2 days ago).--Greywin (talk) 21:34, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
 * delete, excellent example of WP:NOTNEWS. —Kusma (t·c) 13:45, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Mind that "Neue Presse" and "thelocal" are local news only. "Neue Presse" explicitly is centered around the city of Hannover and its surroundings to which Burgwedel belongs. --ObersterGenosse (talk) 15:57, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
 * This is clearly wrong indeed, "The Local Germany" reports news from all over Germany (as the cited article itself shows). Neue Presse may focus on Northern Germany a bit (with news from all over Germany), but FAZ, n-tv, Welt are clearly nationwide coverage. But I suppose this AfD discussion is more about "for that which must not, cannot be."--Greywin (talk) 17:26, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
 * The Local is a well-regarded newspaper that covers Germany in English, read by ex-pats.E.M.Gregory (talk) 18:54, 13 April 2018 (UTC)


 * There is too much coverage here to delete, I suggest Merge and Redirect to a new subhead to be created for the purpose at Immigration and crime in Germany.E.M.Gregory (talk) 00:22, 16 April 2018 (UTC)E.M.Gregory (talk) 18:54, 13 April 2018 (UTC) changing iVote below, per more ONGOING coverage.
 * I support the subhead in the Immigration and crime article, but meanwhile this one here is much too long to merge (additions by user:XavierItzM). Change my vote to Speedy Keep after the additions, continuing coverage, article is now significantly expanded.--Greywin (talk) 18:58, 15 April 2018 (UTC)


 * Keep - The nom is defective. The nom says the event is not notable.  If it were not notable, it would not have received coverage from, as included in the article: 1. n-tv; 2. Die Welt; 3. Hannoversche Allgemeine Zeitung; 4. Bild; 5. The Local; 6. Focus (German magazine); 7. Tz (newspaper); 8. Neue Presse (on the German Wikipedia); 8. Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung.  Furthermore, if it were not notable, it would not have received continuous coverage on, as included in the article: 25 March, 26 March, 31 March, 28 March, 27 March, 29 March, 7 April, 2 April, 10 April, 12 April.  Furthermore, the nom says the aftermath is something about Facebook.  The nom is wrong.  The aftermath covers: (1). The national debate about immigration sparked in Germany as a result of this attack (with three WP:RS); (2). The response from the State Prime Minister; (3). The hate speech investigation; (4). The exploitation of the attack for electoral purposes by the third largest political party in Germany, i.e.,  Alternative for Germany.  Objections raised by others include that this was a "regional" event.  This is erroneous.  If it were regional, why is it being covered by the following not local media: I- n-tv; II- Die Welt; III- The Local; IV- Focus; V- Tz (a Munich/Bavaria paper in the South, here covering a Hannover event in the Northwest); VI- Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung.  The claim of "regional/local" is entirely disproven.  The final objection is WP:NOTNEWS.  This claim for deletion is based on a misreading of policy. The policy is aimed against entertainment news. Specifically, WP:NOTNEWS reads "routine news reporting on things like announcements, sports, or celebrities is not a sufficient basis for inclusion in the encyclopedia." This case on the contrary is a notable crime which has fueled a national debate (specifically: "knife attacks further fuels debate over refugees and violence" ; "The deed has triggered a political debate on juvenile delinquency and the integration of refugees" ). Besides, this is clearly not "routine news reporting" on "announcements, sports, or celebrities". This is routine news reporting a major crime and therefore WP:NOTNEWS does not apply. I can only recommend re-reading the WP:NOTNEWS policy. Finally, the unsound arguments in favor of NOTNEWS are trumped by WP:NCRIME, which reads «Articles about criminal acts, particularly those that fall within the category of "breaking news", are frequently the subject of deletion discussions. As with other events, media coverage can confer notability on a high-profile criminal act», so keeping this article ought to be adjudicated by default, as clearly the coverage has been extensive and continuous.  XavierItzm (talk) 21:35, 15 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep due to sources brought by User:XavierItzm and the fact that Youth knifing spate alarms German police unions/a-43225871. Mreover, he growing concern over this and similar attacks in the recent "spate" makes this a matter of of WP:RAPID. E.M.Gregory (talk) 00:22, 16 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep for instance the Focus article is a national-level publication. Also, the "regional news" referred to above refers to regions with 8 million people (Lower Saxony). 8 million is more than the population of Norway or Denmark. AadaamS (talk) 04:56, 16 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep Continuing wide national coverage, some international coverage - meeting WP:NCRIME at this time (possibly qualified with WP:RAPID - as we do not know the state of future continuing coverage, but coverage up to now merits inclusion).Icewhiz (talk) 06:07, 16 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep, have struck out my "delete", thanks to above editors and their additions to article, it is shown to meet the WP:EVENTCRIT. Coolabahapple (talk) 16:35, 16 April 2018 (UTC)


 * Keep something meets WP:GNG here. It could be this article should be merged into and redirected towards 2018 German stabbings or even knife crime in Germany. Or, per WP:RAPID, maybe it'll be alright as a standalone piece. But the information here should be retained in one form or another and once the dust settles merging can be discussed without heading to AfD. -- BobTheIP editing as 92.11.149.25 (talk) 23:10, 16 April 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.