Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2018 Eastern Canada heat wave


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge to 2018 North American heat wave.  Sandstein  07:43, 13 July 2018 (UTC)

2018 Eastern Canada heat wave

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

Trivia. Wikipedia is not about summer weather. — JFG talk 07:08, 6 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Canada-related deletion discussions. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 07:37, 6 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 07:40, 6 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Keep. Not trivia. Many people have died. As a result of these deaths, governments may pay more attention to protecting at-risk people during future heat waves. Also, other weather events such as hurricanes are recognized as notable. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 07:42, 6 July 2018 (UTC)
 * As sad as it is, many people die every day from traffic accidents, from heat, from cold, from malnutrition, falling from ladders, or drowning. Barring a demonstrably exceptional death toll, such events are not encyclopedic. — JFG talk 08:07, 6 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Keep - clearly notable with historic significance. Persisting coverage. Störm   (talk)  07:45, 6 July 2018 (UTC)
 * "Historic significance" cannot be assessed mere days into the event. This is WP:RECENTISM at its finest. — JFG talk 08:03, 6 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Yes Störm. That is a pure POV reason, with nothing to back it up. HiLo48 (talk)


 * Delete These events make lovely, immediate, tabloid news, but really need time to pass before a proper assessment can be made as to their real impact. The strange humidex figure is pretty meaningless since it doesn't seem to be used anywhere else, and is wrongly used in the article anyway, with a degree symbol and a conversion to Fahrenheit. (Yes, I followed the link. So should you.) That shows that the writer didn't know what they were talking about. Claiming a record for an index no-one else uses is not a good look. This line about the deaths in Montreal is telling - "...did not cause a rise above the city's overall daily death average". I have thunderstorm warnings current for my city right now, but don't intend to write an article about it. HiLo48 (talk) 08:38, 6 July 2018 (UTC)
 * The temperature in degrees is how hot it feels. The thermometer might give another answer and still be right, but that's because it's made of glass and mercury, not human gunk. Readers (as opposed to meters) are more in tune with human gunk, so relaying the humidex paints a clearer picture than "the truth" would. InedibleHulk (talk) 06:09, 7 July 2018 (UTC)


 *  Keep or merge - Keep or merge per Eastmain and Störm. There is a discussion taking place at Articles for deletion/2018 North American heat wave about whether or not to keep 2018 North American heat wave.  If this article can not be kept, it should be merged with that article, as it has affected the United States. --Jax 0677 (talk) 09:49, 6 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Speedy Keep record temperatures set all across eastern Canada ought give this one some lasting significance, it's certainly not "trivial summer weather", a number of fatalities, plenty of WP:RS covering it even if it's still stubby. Ideally an admin could speedy keep this since it's currently being considered at WP:ITN/C. --LaserLegs (talk) 10:48, 6 July 2018 (UTC)
 * The article doesn't actually say there have been record temperatures all across eastern Canada. If your claim is true, the article isn't telling the story very well. HiLo48 (talk) 10:55, 6 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Ok so tag it for improvement, not deletion. --LaserLegs (talk) 10:58, 6 July 2018 (UTC)
 * I've seen no evidence that could improve it. HiLo48 (talk) 11:06, 6 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Here are a few:  . Was the lead story on national news broadcasts and print for days. If a rationale for delete is "article is a stub and I can't be bothered to even see if it can be expanded, let alone do the work" then I think Wikipedia may be doomed... --LaserLegs (talk) 11:14, 6 July 2018 (UTC)
 * If we allow garbage interpretations of sensationalist news reports to persist, Wikipedia will be doomed. HiLo48 (talk) 01:49, 7 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Comment – Actually, there's an article devoted to said types of weather, located at Extreme weather. North America1000 13:47, 6 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Good point. Folks do seem to want their own experiences to be globally significant, when no evidence has been presented that they are. HiLo48 (talk) 01:06, 7 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Not sure where the "Global significance" criteria is at WP:N but to give some context to "folks" and "their own experiences", the affected region is roughly the Quebec City–Windsor Corridor (admittedly the article needs improvement) which is a densely populated part of Canada with roughly half the national population. This isn't "local" in scope, I'm afraid. --LaserLegs (talk) 01:36, 7 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Speedy Keep a heat wave that has killed 34 people is not trivia. Lepricavark (talk) 15:13, 6 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Please prove that it killed 34 people, and that this is more extreme than a normal hot summer. HiLo48 (talk) 01:06, 7 July 2018 (UTC)
 * I don't need to further prove something that is covered by a reliable source already cited in the article. Lepricavark (talk) 02:57, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Reliable sources are actually very rare for events like this. Almost all media outlets get very excited. I would want to see the number of deaths over recent days compared with deaths in any summer hot spell. An isolated figure means almost nothing. HiLo48 (talk) 04:47, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Take a look at the policy WP:V and the related essay WP:VNT "Editors may not add content solely because they believe it is true, nor delete content they believe to be untrue". --LaserLegs (talk) 13:14, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
 * I know from long experience that reports of these events are typically scientifically sloppy, sensationalist, and very inaccurate. I'm sure you know it too. That means the sources cannot be regarded as reliable. It is our job to judge the reliability of sources, and in these cases they are not good. We need to maintain our standards, and not get as excited as the mass media and its audience. HiLo48 (talk) 01:44, 9 July 2018 (UTC)


 * I already provided links above, but since you insist, here is a WP:RS the CBC . In case you can't click the link, the headline is: "Death toll jumps to 34 as heat wave continues to bake southern Quebec". Here is another article from the national publication The Globe and Mail which cites "extreme weather" and "record-breaking 34c". This will be the second time I've provided these reliable sources, hopefully you won't feel the need to further harangue every single commentator at this AFD. --LaserLegs (talk) 01:24, 7 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Still no concrete evidence that the heat has killed all those people. The article has the interesting comment "did not cause a rise above the city's overall daily death average." Nor that the temperatures are actually records. You're talking to an old weather nerd here, quite used to seeing sensationalist reporting of seemingly dramatic events, only to see just as dramatic report of next summer's hot weather. We can't just throw around words like "deaths" and "records" without being sure. And why haven't you used those sources to improve the article, rather than attacking me here? HiLo48 (talk) 01:54, 7 July 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm not attacking you, I'm providing reliable sources for your objections. If there is some WP:MINIUMUMPARTICIPATION for AFD that I'm missing, please let me know. --LaserLegs (talk) 02:17, 7 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Merge to 2018 North American heat wave. The amount of death with the record temperatures pass WP:GNG. Deletion is not the solution to article cleanup. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 15:30, 6 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Where are the record temps? HiLo48 (talk) 01:06, 7 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Merge into 2018 North American heat wave. 33 deaths is definitely not trivia. However, this is part of the wider heat wave and should not have a separate article. -Zanhe (talk) 21:14, 6 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Has anyone else but me noticed the comment that the number of deaths in some areas is no different from normal? Proper comparisons need to be made before such claims can be made. HiLo48 (talk) 01:06, 7 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Merge per above reasoning. Definitely not trivia but also not clear why this can't be covered in 2018 North American heat wave. Tillerh11 (talk) 00:59, 7 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Not trivia, but not necessarily as dramatic as sensationalist media reports would have it. HiLo48 (talk) 01:55, 7 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Merge - This is a content fork of a subject, 2018 North American heat wave, with questionable notability. Unfortunately, I doubt it will also be deleted because of recentism, but one non-notable page is better than two I suppose.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 05:18, 7 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete As a survivor, I can say it was miserable enough to raise a stink about, but not worse than the typical cold snaps in winter. As an outside observer, I can see it was about as mild for most other victims, governments and industries. Personally a great tragedy for the dead and their circles, but such tragedy is routine for the sick, weak and elderly. The overall rate in Montreal didn't increase. Just made news because complaining about the heat is the thing to do while it's hot; now that it's not, many are still dying, but cooler heads prevail on tying them all together. So should we. But if we can't, at least merge. InedibleHulk (talk) 05:38, 7 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Merge into 2018 North American heat wave. Jmertel23 (talk) 12:41, 7 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Merge. The "Canadian" heat wave is not a separate topic from the "American" one, so there's no need for two separate articles. It's certainly questionable whether the whole thing needs even one article at all, but there's definitely no need for two separate articles. Bearcat (talk) 20:17, 7 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Science-related deletion discussions. Tyw7  (🗣️ Talk to me • ✍️ Contributions) 14:51, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Environment-related deletion discussions. Tyw7  (🗣️ Talk to me • ✍️ Contributions) 14:51, 8 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Merge per above. Although I am convinced that the heat wave itself is notable and not just news. ~ EDDY  ( talk / contribs )~ 16:03, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
 *  Comment - At a bare minimum, the article should be redirected to List of heat waves. --Jax 0677 (talk) 12:41, 10 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Merge. I prefer Jax's idea of redirecting to List of heat waves the best, but at the least it should be within 2018 North American heat wave. However, the argument that heat waves are notable because they killed people doesn't really hold much water. Heat waves tend to do that, so you need something out the ordinary (extremely high death count, widespread blackouts, etc.) that goes beyond WP:INDISCRIMINATE reporting on weather to have a standalone article. Kingofaces43 (talk) 15:08, 10 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep and expand due to widespread media coverage within Canada and abroad. I'm opposed to merging into 2018 North American heat wave, as without the Quebec portion of it (disclosure: I voted to merge into this article in its AFD discussion) it'll likely fail WP:NOTABILITY on its own. Whatever happens, there's no reason there should be two articles, and one of them would fail GNG otherwise. ConCompS talk 19:45, 10 July 2018 (UTC)
 *  Comment  - Anyone who thinks this article should remain in existence needs to do something about the issues I have raised on the article's Talk page. The article is a mess. If no-one has anyone interest in improving its quality, this article MUST be deleted. HiLo48 (talk) 22:45, 10 July 2018 (UTC)
 * I looked at the myriad of issues you raised at the talk page, but needing improvement is not a cause for "this article MUST be deleted". Thanks for your feedback though. --LaserLegs (talk) 16:42, 11 July 2018 (UTC)
 * But you didn't do anything about the problems (which involve most of the rrticle). Nor has anybody else done anything. You may be the only other person who has even looked at the Talk page (nobody else has commented) and nobody is fixing the article. So it seems nobody really cares about it at all. HiLo48 (talk) 22:55, 11 July 2018 (UTC)


 *  Merge  into 2018 North American heat wave.... I see no legitimate reason for a separate article for Eastern Canada.  PK  T (alk)  12:08, 11 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Merge into 2018 North American heat wave, having this as a separate article isn't notable enough. Felicia (talk) 16:40, 11 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete for the same reasons given at the AfD for 2018 North American heat wave, fails the WP:10YT and is nothing more than WP:ROUTINE weather coverage. If this article is kept it should be merged into 2018 North American heat wave, but to reiterate, I think such an outcome would be in error per WP:NOT. -- Millionsandbillions (talk) 16:47, 11 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Merge into 2018 North American heat wave. This article fits perfectly as a subsection of a parent article. Newslinger (talk) 20:44, 12 July 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.