Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2020 Sunshine Coast Rugby Union season


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Vanamonde (Talk) 18:15, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

2020 Sunshine Coast Rugby Union season

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

The article fails the WP:GNG test. HawkAussie (talk) 03:43, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sports-related deletion discussions. HawkAussie (talk) 03:43, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Rugby union-related deletion discussions. HawkAussie (talk) 03:43, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Australia-related deletion discussions. HawkAussie (talk) 03:43, 27 June 2020 (UTC)


 * As far as I can tell the article does pass the GFG test. It contains significant coverage from multiple sources that are independent of the topic. The only source that would not be independent of the topic would be the Sunshine Coast Rugby Union.
 * The article being discussed currently lists five independent sources – Win News, Sunshine Coast Daily, The Chronicle And North Coast Advertiser, PattmanSport, and the Sunshine Coast Rugby Union. Admittedly the two SCRU sources look like they’re direct uploads to the PattmanSport site.
 * I have further sources from 7News Sunshine Coast and the Sunshine Valley Gazette that I’ll endeavour to work in to the article as appropriate. ––RockerballAustralia (talk) 07:19, 27 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete Mulitple local competitions sourced to local media. The article combines fixtures and results from at least 4 different competititions (Womans, Colts,reserves and A-Grade. The competitions are not notable either individually or collectively. noq (talk) 10:33, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
 * These multiple are considered in all media to be within one organisation. To my understanding of WP:GNG, the only requriement for sources is that they need to be reliable, independent of the source, and they provide significant coverage.
 * Is there something I missed? --RockerballAustralia (talk) 00:52, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Also, this article contains more than just a fixtures and results listing. It contains an explaination of what impact the Covid virus had on the season. And mentions Eumundi joining the competition. --RockerballAustralia (talk) 00:59, 1 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Comment Just because they are administered by the same organisation does not make them notable, or mean all competitions by that organisation should be lumped together. The sources and coverage are all WP:ROUTINE. Pattman sport seems to be a hobby/student site covering local sport. The other local media reports are WP:ROUTINE coverage of local teams noq (talk) 10:40, 1 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Comment WP:Routine says "[R]outine news coverage of such things as announcements, sports, speculative coverage, and tabloid journalism are not sufficient basis for an article." I take this to mean that routine coverage on its own is not sufficient for an article. Further, the discussion at What is and is not routine coverage say that 1. "routine coverage" is not a disqualification for notability., and 2. "routine coverage" may indeed be significant enough to surpass Wikipedia's general notability guideline. The coverage referenced in this article is clearly beyond routine. --RockerballAustralia (talk) 23:47, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Errr ... that discussion is an essay.   Ravenswing     18:13, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Comment


 * first reference is to the Sunshine Coast Rugby Union which has it's own article. It does not mention this season at all.


 * All Pattman sport references appear to be a one-man project by a student and cannot be regarded as a WP:reliable source.


 * reference 4 is a facebook post about a single local team starting training.


 * references 5 and 6 refer to a new local team and are not significantly about the whole season.

There is no WP:significant coverage about the competitions here. They are still multiple competitions lumped together, non of which are notable in themselves or collectively.

All you have is a student website, and local media talking about local teams. If we accept that as sufficient to establish notability, we must accept that almost all amateur sports teams in the world are notable as most of them receive that level of coverage. noq (talk) 13:09, 5 July 2020 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 01:24, 7 July 2020 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Certainly leaning delete but relisting to see if firmer consensus can be found.
 * Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Articles for deletion/Log/2020 July 7.  —cyberbot I   Talk to my owner :Online 03:47, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete. Wikipedia is not a sports almanac. The Sunshine Coast Rugby Union article is all that's needed. Stifle (talk) 11:02, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Barkeep49 (talk) 01:13, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia is closer to a general almanac. If we knock this off as being too sports almanacic per the comment above then we knock off all season articles. --RockerballAustralia (talk) 09:37, 18 July 2020 (UTC)


 * That is a bit of a stretch. We do not currently routinely have season articles for local amateur leagues, so why should for this one. Especially as the article mixes several local competitions together. noq (talk) 10:57, 18 July 2020 (UTC)


 * The argument "Wikipedia is not a sports almanac. The [article about the org] article is all that's needed" taken to its logical conclusion suggests to me that season articles shouldn't exist. I don't think anyone would necessarily argue that that needs to happen. The particular argument needs to be better put perhaps.
 * It sounds like you're touch on a discussion that would be better suited elsewhere. That we don't currently do something and should or should not is probably not a discussion for an AfD.
 * For the purposes of this AfD, WP:WAX essentially says that just because other articles don't exist doesn't mean this one shouldn't.--RockerballAustralia (talk) 01:02, 19 July 2020 (UTC)


 * It does not say that because something does not exist it should be created. You have not shown that the article meets WP:GNG You have failed to show any wP:reliable sources giving WP:significant coverage that address the subject as a whole. You just have a collection of local news reports about individual teams and a student website.


 * Ok so here is the itemised WP:GFG response with reference to this version


 * WP:GNG says that "Significant coverage" addresses the topic directly and in detail, so that no original research is needed to extract the content. Significant coverage is more than a trivial mention, but it does not need to be the main topic of the source material.
 * Reference 5 talks about the season shutting down earlier in the year and what is being done to get the season back up and running. It provides verification for one of the round 1 matches. Obviously 7News spoke to one club but it has more than a trivial reference to the season.
 * Reference 3 also talks about the shut down of the season.
 * Reference 1 provides a reference to what number seaon the comp is up to and which year was the first. The author, per the last paragraph of the article, played 357 games for Maroochydore from 1993-2016 and is a life member and former president of that club. There is no other verified connection between them and the competition.
 * There is nothing in WP:GNG or WP:RS that mentions anything about "local news". The only mention — at WP:NEWSORG – is that "[n]ews reporting from well-established news outlets is generally considered to be reliable for statements of fact" granted that "even the most reputable reporting sometimes contains errors."


 * WP:GNG says that"Reliable" means that sources need editorial integrity to allow verifiable evaluation of notability, per the reliable source guideline. Sources may encompass published works in all forms and media, and in any language. Availability of secondary sources covering the subject is a good test for notability.
 * References 1, 3, 7, and 15 are from local newspapers. References 5, 6, 8, and 12 are television stations posting stories to their respective Facebook pages. Per Talk:2020 Sunshine Coast Rugby Union season accessibility to a source is preferable and checking TV Facebook pages should probably done manually to check that it is an otherwise reliable source posting.


 * WP:GNG says that "Sources" should be secondary sources, as those provide the most objective evidence of notability, and that "Independent of the subject" excludes works produced by the article's subject or someone affiliated with it.
 * All references except Refs 9 and 14 are secondary sources that are independent of the subject. 9 and 14 appear to be direct uploads of Sunshine Coast Rugby Union supplied draws – therefore not independent of the subject.
 * I think it would be generally accepted that sources not "independent of the subject" in this case would be the Sunshine Coast Rugby Union, the clubs, the referees, and the staff of those orgs. Per WP:SECONDARY a "secondary source provides an author's own thinking based on primary sources, generally at least one step removed from an event. It contains an author's analysis, evaluation, interpretation, or synthesis of the facts, evidence, concepts, and ideas taken from primary sources."


 * If you want to talk about what should and should not be included in the article the talk page is the place, note here. --RockerballAustralia (talk) 05:33, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

Comment - why not a Selective merge to Sunshine Coast Rugby Union (for the content that doesn't violate Wikipedia policies)? There are only 3 season pages (1919, 1982 and 2020) and the other two are far less sourced than this one. Deus et lex (talk) 05:04, 26 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Comment I don't think there is a lot worth merging. I was not aware of any other season articles for this collection of competitions. noq (talk) 10:25, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

<div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spartaz Humbug! 23:06, 27 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete: Fails WP:NSEASONS and the GNG as well. Per NSEASONS, it is standard practice at the Sports WikiProject to only consider season articles for top-flight professional leagues, while this "Sunshine Coast Rugby Union" is an amateur senior loop subordinate even to its provincial league.  NSEASONS also holds that, "Season articles should consist mainly of well-sourced prose, not just statistics and lists of players. Wikipedia is not a stats directory. It is strongly recommended that such articles be redirected ... if no sourced prose can be created." (emphasis in the original). Finally, while routine sports coverage can be held to verify facts, it cannot be used to substantiate notability.   Ravenswing      18:11, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment - - the article is clearly not notable enough for its own page, but why can't at least some of the sourced content be merged into the league page? That is at least a good alternative to deletion which it seems you are required to consider. Deus et lex (talk) 12:27, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Reply: Simple; there's nothing to merge. Only three sourced, pertinent elements are here: the founding date of the league, the addition of a new team and the impact of COVID on the season.  All are in the main article already.   Ravenswing      18:19, 3 August 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.