Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2023–24 AFC Champions League knockout stage


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep‎__EXPECTED_UNCONNECTED_PAGE__. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 17:01, 15 December 2023 (UTC)

2023–24 AFC Champions League knockout stage

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

This is a contested draftification. This article cites no sources, and a quick check before the nomination did not reveal any sources that covered the knockout stages of the tournament in particular, meaning that the subject of this article is not notable. I'd recommend a merge or redirect to one of the larger articles. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 06:51, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sports, Football,  and Asia. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 06:51, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Courtesy ping for ChampsRT, who moved the page back into mainspace. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 06:56, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 12:35, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep or draftify. I oppose a merge/redirect on the simple reason that knockout stage articles for prior AFC Champions League seasons have their own article. This subject is notable, though it may be slightly WP:TOOSOON based on a lack of SIGCOV.  It is reasonably expected more SIGCOV will be available after more teams qualify and after the teams are drawn.  Frank   Anchor  01:24, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm ambivalent to a draftification, but keeping on the argument of "knockout stage articles for prior AFC Champions League seasons have their own article" is quite a clear WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. I'll also note that the sourcing on the other articles seems to be very poor as well — see the articles for the 2020, 2021, and 2022 seasons, for example. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 01:41, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Which is exactly why I said it is likely to be notable in the future though possibly too soon now, hence my preference to draftify rather than merge.  Frank  Anchor  02:20, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm confused. I didn't provide the articles above as past examples of the knockout stages becoming notable; quite the opposite. Those three are almost entirely supported by primary sources, which don't demonstrate the subject's notability. In fact, if I'd known about the other years' articles before, I might even have bundled them in when I made this nomination. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 02:24, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Looking at the previous competition as an example 2022 AFC Champions League, I think part of the issue is that if the subsidiary articles which have the individual match details (qualifying play-offs, group stage, knockout stage, final) were all merged into the primary article then it would be too large and unwieldy. So its not just about the notability of the individual stage of a competition that overall is definitely notable. Perhaps the merging issue should be discussed more generally at the Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football forum? Matilda Maniac (talk) 12:46, 10 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Keep. I agree that it was started WP:TOOSOON, but the article should get a lot of attention and expansion over the next couple of weeks with the conclusion of the group stage, and the Draw for the knockout stages. There should be plenty of primary and secondary references by then. Matilda Maniac (talk) 12:37, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep or Draftify it's a bit too soon, but quite clearly will be notable enough as a main stage of a continental competition. --SuperJew (talk) 13:28, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep, page will be recreated in two second anyways.--Ortizesp (talk) 07:59, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep Common practice to have these articles, however it does lack sourcing, like 2022 AFC Champions League knockout stage, which is heavily under-sourced, so it's not to say there are issues. Govvy (talk) 08:48, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep as above. GiantSnowman 17:33, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @GiantSnowman, Govvy, Matilda Maniac, Ortizesp, and SuperJew: I'd invite you to articulate your rationales for keeping in terms of a policy or guideline. I still haven't seen anyone dispute the claim that the subject of the article is not notable that I made in my nomination statement; in fact, some editors have linked to the Too soon essay, which actually supports my rationale for action due to the lack of significant coverage. Also, by looking at the state of the references in previous years' articles, I don't see a great track record of the knockout stages becoming notable; I'll also note that I didn't find any useful references for previous years when conducting a search before this nomination. With all that in mind, why do you think that enough sources will exist in the future to demonstrate notability? —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 06:36, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * What on earth are you on about, there are loads online for the AFC Champions League, the knock-out stage is two months away. The article is just following the standard editing procedure. You really should just withdraw this nomination and stop wasting everyones time. Govvy (talk) 09:50, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * You do make some valid points, Mr. Squirrel. Matilda Maniac (talk) 11:02, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Govvy and Matilda Maniac: I can assure you that I don't intend to waste anyone's time. If you think I'm wrong, would you do me the courtesy of showing me why I'm wrong rather than being rude? To be clear, I'm not disputing the notability of the AFC Champions League — I found plenty of sources for that — only the knockout rounds . —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 16:33, 12 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Keep or draftify per . Agree that it was started too soon, but are we really doubting the notability of the knockout stage round for the premier continental football competition in Asia? Poor sourcing is one thing, but that can be improved. As Matilda Maniac mentioned, these types of articles act as content forks via WP:SPINOFF. The main reason we do that is to keep the match details, which are often notable though excessively detailed, in its own article rather than have everything on the main article where it would be undue, which is a valid type of content forking. As far as the actual content is concerned at the moment, I see the argument to merge or redirect, but I don't see an issue with the notability of the subject itself. Jay eyem (talk) 22:47, 12 December 2023 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.