Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2023 Pakistan Super League


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Pretty clear consensus to delete both until closer to. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 07:56, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

2023 Pakistan Super League

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

WP:CRYSTAL here as it's way too far out in the future to be certain of this.

I am also nominating the following related page because of the same reason
 * HawkAussie (talk) 06:32, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sports-related deletion discussions. HawkAussie (talk) 06:32, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Cricket-related deletion discussions. HawkAussie (talk) 06:32, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Pakistan-related deletion discussions. HawkAussie (talk) 06:32, 3 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Strong Keep the nom cited WP:Crystal as the reason for deletion. I just want to state that WP:Crystal states that "Individual scheduled or expected future events should be included only if the event is notable and almost certain to take place." This article meets all the conditions in this clause. Pakistan Super League is a notable tournament.  The fact that ICC has moved 2023 Cricket Worldcup for this iteration of  event also lends it notability.  Policy also states that everything must be "verifiable, and the subject matter must be of sufficiently wide interest that it would merit an article if the event had already occurred."  Everything in the articles is well cited with appropriate WP:RS, and I think we all agree that that this article meets second part of this sentence which states "it would merit an article if the event had already occurred."  The policy also emphasizes that "It is appropriate to report discussion and arguments about the prospects for success of future proposals and projects or whether some development will occur, if discussion is properly referenced." (with emphasis on is!)  As you can see WP:Crystal overwhelmingly supports inclusion of this article.  So I must say that this is a Strong keep as per WP:Crystal. KSAWikipedian (talk) 06:58, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:CRYSTAL, specifically "Dates are not definite until the event actually takes place, as even notable events can be cancelled or postponed at the last minute by a major incident." As an aside, I'm not sure how reliable the sources are for the suggestion that the World Cup was moved to accommodate the PSL; the high-quality reliable sources that I can find make no mention of it, just saying that it was basically due to COVID. Harrias  talk 07:08, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Dear, You are taking that sentence out of context. That the sentence you quoted is NOT a criteria for exclusion. If it was, it would make 2020 Summer Olympics would be excluded. As far as you being "not sure how reliable the sources," You can refer to WP:RS and you can see they are considered reliable per the WP:RS policy. KSAWikipedian (talk) 08:11, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
 * That's a fair point, but it still is too far off into the future to be certain, per WP:CRYSTAL (especially in a part of the world which has been a bit volatile for cricket in the recent past. We all hope it remains steady, and as we get closer, this article can then be created.) Harrias  talk 08:36, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Sahiwal.tv does not look like an RS to me. It claims Sahiwal is one of the fastest growing online publication in the industry. We cover the latest news on Blockchain technology, Cryptocurrency. It was started in Nov 2019 with the aim of providing the latest, accurate and most unbiased news. and looks more like a blog than a genuine news source. Spike &#39;em (talk) 08:20, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
 * , being "certain" is very subjective and open to opinion. WP:V is a Wikipedia policy. Per that policy, only info in article the stuff that can be verified. AS far as being too far in the future. WP:Crystal states that If preparation for the event is not already in progress, speculation about it must be well documented.  AS you can tell that even if I give you the whole uncertainty in that part of the world argument. It still warrants inclusion given at least speculation about it must well documented part., if you have a question about Sahiwal.tv, we can discuss that but one questionable reference does not warrant a deletion about the whole article.  There are other references that meet WP:RS including references from India Today and The News International Which I know we both will agree meet WP:RS. KSAWikipedian (talk) 09:50, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
 * To be clear : my !vote below is not based on the reliability of these sources, this is all an aside. Spike &#39;em (talk) 11:59, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Then what was it based on? KSAWikipedian (talk) 14:16, 3 August 2020 (UTC) Also,  Give me one article that says that 2023 worldcup was moved because of COVID, you made a claim without an WP:RS, everything I wrote in those articles is based on WP:RS There are at least 3 sources from India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh that I have cited that state that WorldCup was moved for PSL.KSAWikipedian (talk) 15:01, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Stop BLUDGEONing, all it is going to do is piss people off. Harrias  talk 15:02, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I am not BLUDGEONing anyone. I am just asking people to give a policy or consensus behind their POV. Isn't that the purpose of this discussion to have a open discussion based on policy and facts and not just attach WP behind you opinion. I am just saying that your believing that it is too soon is not the same as WP:TooSoon, etc. I am just asking people to read what they are tagging.KSAWikipedian (talk) 15:11, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
 * It comes across as bludgeoning to me too. I am comfortable with my !vote reasons stated: they are used frequently in similar AfDs and I have yet to see a closer discount them. Spike &#39;em (talk) 15:24, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
 * From the cited India Today article "The ICC said the decision to delay the 2023 World Cup to October-November is taken to ensure a fair qualification process, taking into account the matches cancelled or postponed due to the Covid-19 pandemic" – cites COVID, no mention of the PCL. Those that do mention the PCL are reports based on "sources within the PCB". wjematherplease leave a message... 15:56, 3 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete WP:CRYSTAL / WP:TOOSOON. Spike &#39;em (talk) 08:13, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
 * As an example, see this related AfD regarding future IPL. Spike &#39;em (talk) 08:48, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete way too soon for an event like this in both cases. Next year, yes, OK, if you really must, but given the nature of cricket events and the history of the establishment of the PSL, anything more is clearly far too soon - especially just now. Blue Square Thing (talk) 08:31, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete. Heading toward delete, per WP:TOOSOON. Domestic tournaments can change all the time, whereas the World Cup is a planned certainity (albeit a boring 10 team one!). StickyWicket (talk) 10:00, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete both. Per WP:OUTCOMES, this is way WP:TOOSOON; also has WP:CRYSTAL issues and some sources are of questionable reliability. wjematherplease leave a message... 10:26, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Seems history is repeating itself; see Articles for deletion/2018 Pakistan Super League from four and a half years ago. wjematherplease leave a message... 10:26, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
 * ntohing in WP:TOOSOONWP:CRYSTAL Supports deletion. KSAWikipedian (talk) 14:16, 3 August 2020 (UTC) Also, WP:OUTCOME is not a policy. KSAWikipedian (talk) 14:18, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
 * There is entirely insufficient verifiable detail (or coverage) to warrant creation of these articles (no dates/scheduling window – just a nod to when past seasons have been played, no fixture list, no teams, no players, etc.). Future seasons that are over a year away almost always fail GNG/NSPORT & these are no different. Even if any of the details listed were available/verifiable, at this point they could (and should) easily be noted within the main article in a future seasons section (per WP:MERGEREASON). wjematherplease leave a message... 14:32, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Almost always fail is not a reason to delete article without discussion. The point of this discussion is: should these articles be deleted? Again, there is enough coverage that these season meat WP:NSEASONS which states Articles can be created on individual seasons of teams in top professional leagues, as these articles almost always meet the notability requirements. and furthermore suggests that season articles should consist mainly of well-sourced prose. As for WP:GNG, that requires, independent, reliable and significant coverage. I am sure we will agree that Major news outlets from three countries are considered independent, reliable and significant. We don't need exact dates, but the PSL window mentioned in multiple articles mentions the windodw being cleared for PSL.KSAWikipedian (talk) 15:01, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Well, we are having a discussion, it just happens that no-one else agrees with you. You mention "multiple sources" but there seems to be one original report (in "The News") which is then repeated in the others (with a mention of that report), so this does not count as "independent". Spike &#39;em (talk) 15:08, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
 * For 2022, the only content that could be considered directly relevant to the season is this solitary sentence: "starting in 2021 PSL will have a dedicated window in the International Cricket Council's future tours program". However this is of more relevance to the 2021 season and the PSL in general, and is certainly not enough to support a full season article. For 2023, we have this: "2023 Cricket World Cup was scheduled to be held in the same window. However, International Cricket Council has moved the worldcup to October-November. This move was to allow for the eigth edition of PSL. Given this dedicated window, It will allow PSL to secure more lucrative sponsorship deals, given lack of competition.". This is substantially the same detail as 2022, just noting the WC rescheduling with added PCB propaganda/claims supported by sources of questionable reliability – other (more reliable) sources do not seem to substantiate these claims, quoting the ICC as giving WC qualifying as the reason for rescheduling. In any case, not enough to support a full season article. wjematherplease leave a message... 15:51, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you . Than you for this response. You are obviously making a contributions through a well-informed and researched data behind you. I made 2022 after making 2023. 2022 was only made since I had already created one for 2023. That is my only reason for 2022. If the consensus is that bridge season is not reason enough to include this articles (or that if 2023 needs to be deleted), then I will have not recreate it until after 2021 season. Again, It is clear you understood my claim for WP:Notability and thank you for addressing it directly.  I see you claim of ICC's quote of PSL vs Fair qualification process. Let me do some research to see if I can respond to that.  If I cannot I will change my vote to delete. Fair enough? Again, thank you for actually keeping the D in AfD, and actually discussing. KSAWikipedian (talk) 16:48, 3 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete per all the above. The 2020 hasn't offically concluded yet (probably) wont. The 2021 hasn't started, and that might not happen either.  Lugnuts  Fire Walk with Me 06:43, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete as per nom. Also see Talk:2020 Asia Cup. Human (talk) 08:31, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete as per the nom, way too soon. For the 2022 article, it'll be 12-18 months until you get meaningful content for it, and another year for the 2023 article. Joseph2302 (talk) 19:36, 9 August 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.