Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2023 Pittsburgh standoff and shooting


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge‎__EXPECTED_UNCONNECTED_PAGE__ to Moorish Science Temple of America. Liz Read! Talk! 00:17, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

2023 Pittsburgh standoff and shooting

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

fails WP:GNG Joeykai (talk) 03:39, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Crime-related deletion discussions. Joeykai (talk) 03:39, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Events and Pennsylvania.  WC  Quidditch   ☎   ✎  05:06, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
 *  Delete Merge & Redirect to Moorish Science Temple of America as an AtD as proposed below. My reasoning against a standalone article that follows remains valid, but a merge/redir to Moorish Science Temple with selective merge into Eviction in the United States makes sense. Cheers, Last1in (talk) 12:56, 12 January 2024 (UTC) Original !vote: Delete as WP:NOTNEWS. Fails WP:NEVENT on literally all criteria. If, at some point in the future, anyone can find secondary sources (all current cites are WP:PRIMARYNEWS) that use it as a case study or pinpoint lasting WP:EFFECT, the article can be recreated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Last1in (talk • contribs) 13:26, 28 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Merge to the Moorish sovereign citizens section of Moorish Science Temple of America, under legal incidents. While this isn't notable enough for its own article it does seem to have caused legal problems (getting so many cops suspended) and is an interesting example. There actually is coverage of it in the context of "a wider trend" so I think it's not undue
 * https://www.post-gazette.com/news/crime-courts/2023/08/27/garfield-shooting-hardison-moorish-sovereign-pittsburgh/stories/202308250100
 * https://www.theroot.com/after-black-man-was-dies-in-a-violent-standoff-with-pit-1850775937
 * https://www.pghcitypaper.com/news/after-tragedy-garfield-leaders-say-they-need-housing-resources-24571354
 * Actually did get significant coverage just last week, four months after this occured, which I think shows some lasting importance even if it would be better served in the context of that article instead of its own (https://www.dailyitem.com/wire/politics/public-safety-and-criminal-justiceand-the-perceptions-of-both--/article_e642abc9-ce0f-5092-bd16-0d6b7679fd6c.html). At the very least it is an interesting example of sovereign citizen violence PARAKANYAA (talk) 06:29, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

Relisting comment: Relisting as two different Merge target articles are being proposed. It also would have been preferable if a more thorough deletion rationale had been provided by the nominator. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 04:22, 4 January 2024 (UTC) Relisting comment: Again, two different Merge targets are being suggested. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 00:48, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Merge also to Eviction in the United States, at least. Such a violent reaction to serving an eviction notice needs to be documented somewhere and the content ought not be lost. While WP:NOTNEWS applies to this event, I am not so sure that the event should be dismissed as just not notable. The police are certainly going to pay attention to this and adjust their tactics accordingly. I suspect the lasting effects are still to play out, too. I wonder if this was pitched as a different sort of article, such as a notable police killing of a person, whether it would then be considered notable. Given a whole suburban neighborhood appears to have been endangered, with surrounding homes shot up, too, the reaction of the evictee appears extraordinary and was unexpected. I also cannot help but draw parallels with the Napier siege in New Zealand, where a major part of the city was locked down by an active shooter, after police executed a search warrant. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 11:15, 31 December 2023 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * @Liz I think Cameron was suggesting we merge it to what I suggested and also add a part to the eviction in the US article. Or maybe not. @Cameron Dewe Thoughts? PARAKANYAA (talk) 03:25, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
 * @Liz and @PARAKANYAA: To both target. My rationale for suggesting Eviction in the United States is that a brief account of this incident would serve to illustrate what can happen when law enforcement officials get it wrong and have an extreme reaction to the eviction process that the evictee refused to participate in. My rationale for Moorish Science Temple of America, under legal incidents, is that the various sovereign citizen movements have beliefs that seem to be at odds with the laws of the land that fail to appreciate and understand common law and their rights and responsibilities. It is like they are fighting for their rights but rejecting their responsibility to abide by the law when it goes against them. There are two different reasons, so two targets exist. Sorry if life is more complicated than Wikipedia wants it to be. Having multiple redirect target suggest the event might actually be notable, too. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 04:19, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
 * @Cameron Dewe The content could go on more than one page, but technically a redirect can only point one place. Which would you prefer? PARAKANYAA (talk) 04:26, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
 * @PARAKANYAA: If that is the case, I would agree with your suggestion of the Moorish Science Temple of America, under legal incidents, because it is more specific. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 03:18, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Nice, okay. I'm gonna try to clean this up a bit before the merge happens at least... PARAKANYAA (talk) 23:42, 13 January 2024 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.