Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2024 Pune car crash


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus‎__EXPECTED_UNCONNECTED_PAGE__. 16 editors have argued for deletion or "draftification," making a strong case that Wikipedia is not a news outlet. 17 editors have argued to keep the article as it has received substantial coverage beyond a run of the mill traffic accident. It seems the question is whether coverage of this is sustained---it has continued to receive some coverage since being relisted. Right now, I don't see consensus to keep or delete the article and I don't see a clearer consensus emerging in another week, so I am closing the discussion for now.  Malinaccier ( talk ) 00:23, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

2024 Pune car crash

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

WP:NOTABILITY, WP:NOTNEWS, no significant coverage outside India and trivial commentary by a few politicians, possibly because it happened during the 2024 Indian general election. Borgenland (talk) 07:50, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Articles for deletion/Log/2024 May 23.  —cyberbot I   Talk to my owner :Online 07:59, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Maharashtra-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 08:29, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Events and Transportation.  WC  Quidditch   ☎   ✎  10:45, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete. As stated in WP:N(E), "Routine kinds of news events (including most crimes, accidents, deaths, celebrity or political news, "shock" news, stories lacking lasting value such as "water cooler stories," and viral phenomena) [...] are usually not notable unless something further gives them additional enduring significance." There's nothing about this event that indicates it has (or will have) enduring significance. Ethmostigmus (talk | contribs) 11:30, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
 * It will have enduring significance, we are seeing members of the current ruling party lauchpadding this case for the movement of judicial reform. 27.63.231.66 (talk) 18:14, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Which coinciding with the general election, may as well be an electoral stunt that everyone will forget. Borgenland (talk) 18:33, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
 * A significance in this case my friend is the fact of how it exposes the 2 different India. The minor in the case was let off in less than a day with nothing more than a month of social service and a puny essay to write on road accident on the account he is not an adult. The minor had been allowed inside 2 pubs and allowed to drive a porsche whichunder indian law can only be done once you are above 18. This makes this case have lasting value to the legal system. This is different from most crimes, accidents and is very notable due to the social media traction it gained. The only political or criminal connection comes as an MLA that is a member of indian parliament's son was in the car at the time and beat up by people at the venue of accident and the judicial system was exposed for its flaw in giving juvenile justice and the police did a bad job on this case. Killing of 2 IT proffesionals cannot be termed as a electoral stunt. PublicHelper1101 (talk) 17:17, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete: Very much a routine automobile accident, you could replace "Pune" with almost any city around the globe and the story would be the same. NOTNEWS Oaktree b (talk) 15:05, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I would not say so my dear friend for this accident has waters much deeper than most cases, it involves an MLA, a renowned builder and incompetency of a bribed police and hospital staff. The mom of the minor was reported to have swapped her blood making this veryyy different from an average automobile accident in las vegas etc. PublicHelper1101 (talk) 17:19, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
 * The accident isn't notable, the investigation and allegations around it could be notable; that would be a different article. Oaktree b (talk) 01:40, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Your comment makes no sense yet let me explain, This accident involves a builder's son crashing into 2 IT proffesionals at 3:30 AM at a speed of 200 km/h. Accused was handed to police and was giiven bail in less than a day without any notable punishment making this a notable accident. This article should not be deleted. Publichelper1011 (talk) 05:36, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete, Automobile accidents are very common, run of the mill incidents, sure, this incident may have gotten a tad bit more attention from politicians and the news, but at the end of the day, its frankly not really news. -Samoht27 (talk) 16:11, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
 * This incident is different from your run of the mill accidents. This time it involves rich parents saving a brat from rightful justice as he was released in less than a day and was given a punishment of writing a "run of the mill" essay and was entitled to a few days of community service. An average murderer is remanded to 2 years of juvenile custody I must add dear dellow samoht. PublicHelper1101 (talk) 17:21, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Keep It has got significant coverage for now. It will take sometime to see if it meets WP:LASTING. Ratnahastin  (talk) 17:49, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete: And until then, relevant policies stipulate that the incident is not notable, and an article on it therefore cannot be sustained. If this is still in the news two years from now, I expect anyone still interested can recreate it at that time.   Ravenswing      15:17, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Keep per WP:RAPID. Not the right time to decide notability of the subject that has already got enough coverage. Srijanx22 (talk) 19:43, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete This is incredibly MILL and probably didn't need the usual pointlessly rageful Republic/NDTV overcoverage which seems to be openly turning a simple vehicular death incident into exactly what they want. There won't be lasting coverage and it will likely end with private settlements and other justice currently happening now.  Nate  • ( chatter ) 22:31, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Its may 30 today 1 week after the incident and News show that minor was released in 17 hours, Hospital staff was bribed of 3 lakhs, the minor's father and grandfather in police custody. thier uncle has ragebaited the public, minors mom has faked blood reports by swapping her own blood for her childs reminding us of drishyam 2 and its amazing climax. PublicHelper1101 (talk) 17:23, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Keep Still getting coverage. ArvindPalaskar (talk) 05:47, 24 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Delete reiterate a minimal casualty toll, non-notable victims (that the suspect was driving a Porsche is mere WP:TRIVIA) and no significant coverage outside India. Borgenland (talk) 06:36, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
 * This above comment is posted by the same editor who also nominated this article for deletion. Ratnahastin  (talk) 06:40, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Stricken for emphasis . That's right. You need to sign + timestamp all nominations, Borgenland, which already count as your preference to delete (!vote). El_C 07:48, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Didn’t notice that in the starter. Thanks! Borgenland (talk) 07:49, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
 * No worries, all good. El_C 07:56, 24 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Delete per NOTNEWS and above in general. The   Kip  (contribs) 08:44, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete for the reasons others have mentioned, if this is something that will become notable then it's WP:TOOSOON. -- LCU A ctively D isinterested  «@» °∆t° 10:19, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Keep To say that an article should be deleted only because it concerns a recent incident is not sensible. Should wait for some weeks before doing AfD in these cases. Shankargb (talk) 15:42, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
 * It's not that it's recent so much as it's a completely run of the mill drunk driving crash that killed two people. It quite literally is not notable. The   Kip  (contribs) 17:11, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
 * ... which was stated in the OP. What isn't sensible is to base an opinion at AfD based on cherrypicking only one element of the nomination.   Ravenswing      17:20, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete: Run-of-the-mill car crash of which hundreds of the same scale occur every day. Just because something receives a small burst of news coverage does not mean it is notable. Curbon7 (talk) 17:41, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 1 week after the incident, multiple arrest have been done in the case. The investigation for the mother is on way, bribe of 3 lakhs has been noted, police have said this is not an everyday car crash. PublicHelper1101 (talk) 17:25, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
 * My comment no longer applies as the crash, while still fairly run-of-the-mill, has clearly has had some sort of broader impact. Curbon7 (talk) 21:23, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:SUSTAINED etc. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:18, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete run of the mill accident without the depth or extent of media coverage, such that it is not notable. The only thing setting it apart is the odd bail conditions, but that is insufficient to give it notability. Local Variable (talk) 10:22, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
 * local variabled is unable to see the news i assume PublicHelper1101 (talk) 17:25, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete doesn't seem notable to me at all. These types of crashes occur every day. Sadustu Tau (talk) 10:29, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
 * sadustu tau must catch up to recent news. PublicHelper1101 (talk) 17:25, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Being vague about this is not going to change my argument. Sadustu Tau (talk) 20:52, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Also my comment was made before more recent developments, which do seem to make it more notable than usual, however. Sadustu Tau (talk) 20:54, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Keep While vehicle accidents are not automatically notable, this one is a different case. 2024 elections are not really relevant for this incident. This car crash has gained significant worldwide coverage, contrary to this AfD nomination. Abhishek0831996 (talk) 16:15, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Doubtful over its sustainable coverage though. At this rate it is a mere eccentric news from abroad. Borgenland (talk) 16:21, 25 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Delete as it's basically a car crash, which will not generate sustained coverage. If it does indeed generate long-term coverage, it can be recreated. OhHaiMark (talk) 16:44, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Keep The case is in no way trivial. Each day has only got the case more coverage in national media. The involvement of politicians in the case has nothing to do with the General election. The Porsche case is a national phenomenon in its own right. In addition, the case continues to cause arrests and interrogation of multiple individuals involved presently.
 * Appu (talk) 13:46, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Keep While Such accidents are prevalent worldwide. However, this news has got India-wide coverage and is still getting coverage.
 * &#126;~TNS~&#126; (talk) 17:14, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

Keep (1)The case has garnered significant media coverage with each & every update of the case being telecasted and covered across the board. Multiple national politicians have already made comments on it during the ongoing 2024 Indian General Elections. Therefore the subject is already notable enough for an independent page. The incident is of national coverage and has already brought the discussion on the Judiciary and Police executives to the forefront. (2) Being a recent news, as per WP:RAPID it is better to keep the page for now since there is no deadline to delete the page. Moreover, if its not WP:SUSTAINED in future, it can always be deleted. (3) For WP:TOOSOON multiple developments have already taken place in the investigation with reactions from many notable people. Therefore it is not too soon and sufficient time has already passed. EditorOnJob (talk) 13:28, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

Keep: This incident rather exposed a number of doctors and other people involved due to the public pressure which isn't a normal occurrence if it hadn't been public pressure the incident would have been like any normal accident out there. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.96.89.170 (talk) 16:25, 30 May 2024 (UTC) Relisting comment: Relisting as there is still an active discussion ongoing here. I tagged the article as lacking NPOV but I'm also baffled by editors claiming this article is about " a routine automobile accident" as this article has been greatly expanded since its nomination. What matters is not whether or not editors believe a car crash is just news but whether reliable source establish this subject's notability. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 00:19, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
 * keep the incident is clearly notable, and it passes Notability (events). The incident is being covered all over India in reliable sources. Nominator's rationale "no significant coverage outside India is also inappropriate. Most of the murders, and missing persons cases (from all over the world) do not get international coverage, very few do. When the car crash took place, I thought the coverage was sensationalism, but later the decisions were cancelled, and now three generations are in custody source. The resulting coverage is now not sensationalism. According to this, (posted on 23, crash was on 19) it has grabbed national attention. The car crash has also reopened the investigation of a hit placed by Surndra Agarwal on a corporator through mafia/underworld don Two doctors of state-run hospital were arrested source. These things do not happen with run of the mill car crashes. —usernamekiran (talk) 13:57, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:NOTNEWS and WP:SUSTAINED. If there are significant changes in popular media, legislation etc. because of this event over the next few years then we can recreate the article. Also to the nom, that "no significant coverage outside India" is definitely uncalled for. -- Lenticel ( talk ) 01:28, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
 * This comment calls for deleting every case even those of deaths of head of state if they had no change to popular media, please use common sense brother lentical. PublicHelper1101 (talk) 17:26, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
 * What a poor choice of analogy comparing a dead world leader with a local councilman bhai. You do need to make your arguments have more sense. Borgenland (talk) 18:51, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Keep This is a multinational news story. It is not about a car crash, but instead about social issues such as wealth avoiding legal consequences, bribery, rich young people using alcohol, the rights of common people versus rich, and others. This is not a routine report of an automobile collision, nor is it local, and the story is very likely to have ongoing updates because of further developments including the bribery accusations and accusations of corruption of doctors, police, and the courts.  Bluerasberry   (talk)  12:37, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete. Not least because of the enormous BLP violations contained within, including claims of criminality and intent that have not been fully adjudicated and the publication of minors' and non-notable victims' names. If the topic eventually does receive sustained attention, it can easily be refunded, but right now it is doing far more harm to victims' families in addition to contributing to sensationalist non-NPOV political reporting. JoelleJay (talk) 22:12, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
 * The topic is still viral on social media and spokesperson of multiple politcal parties, and news channel still report the incident and cover it about 10 days after the reported rage break in social media. PublicHelper1101 (talk) 17:28, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Keep. The incident has recieved notable media coverage along with multiple independent sources covering the topic over a prolonged period. The Indian General elections have ended, the media coverage should be observed over the next few days in order to access whether it was a politcally motivated topic or a notable topic of interest. Keep it for the time being and continue the discussion for the a few more days. Xoocit (talk) 23:51, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Keep per WP:RAPID It has got significant coverage till date. The question whether it is WP:LASTING will be only known in due course. The trial has to take place .Hence for now it is keep.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 09:39, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Speedy keep This is not a random car crash but a unique one. It is still getting enough coverage and this coverage is going to happen for a longer period of time. Georgethedragonslayer (talk) 15:23, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Keep. This incident has caused a stir in India like no other car crash has. Deeper themes of the exploitation of the poor by the rich with money (rich kid killed the poor, but almost got away with it by bribing with money) exist, and it also highlights the injustices that India’s current legal/police system allows. Coverage by many major Indian news providers still continues, alongside social media discussions by citizens.JayTea2910 (talk) 15:30, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete. Wikipedia is not a newspaper, and news coverage alone does not demonstrate notability. Come back after the news coverage ends and there are articles explaining how significant the fallout was. Creating articles for events before that happens is irresponsible. The big ugly alien  ( talk ) 17:33, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Keep. Appallingly written, but clearly extremely notable and will continue to be extremely notable in highlighting preferential treatment of the rich in India's justice system. So yes, contrary to claims above it's already very clear that this will have enduring significance. -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:57, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Draftify. WP:BLPCRIME advises that editors should seriously consider not creating articles about living people accused of a crime, before they have been convicted, as they are presumed innocent until found guilty by a court of law. It is too soon to have this article. Allow the judicial process to play out first. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 12:30, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Hi. this article isn't a BLP, it is about a car crash and aftermath. The article doesn't even name the accused perp. —usernamekiran (talk) 23:36, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
 * @Usernamekiran: True, the article is not a BLP but WP:BLPCRIME applies to all articles. The same consideration is set out at WP:PERPETRATOR, too. The article is about a fatal vehicle collision in which two motorcyclist have died. In most countries that makes it a double homicide, which is a crime, not just a "car" crash. Several other people who assisted the perpetrator are named in the article and they are also accused of committing crimes. WP:BLPCRIME applies to them too. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 00:18, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Keep: The article is obviously biased but the incident has pretty wide coverage across India, and there appears to have been ramifications for social discourse in India about corruption, rule of law and wealth inequality stemming directly from this incident.Cyali (talk) 02:26, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Comment. I'm all for shaming the rich and powerfully connected, but I'm not sure that has been the consensus since at least 2007. Argue amongst yourselves, but please ping me if there has been a new precedent created by keeping this article. Bearian (talk) 15:17, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep per comments above. Notable and unique event, with masive media coverage. Also create a couple of redirects to the page for wider accessibility. Pharaoh496 (talk) 08:06, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
 * this is an update, and significant coverage in reliable source on the next day of general elections. Signifying that previous coverage was not sensationalism. It has retained sustained coverage. —usernamekiran (talk) 16:33, 5 June 2024 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.