Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/903 (PTV Bus)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to SmartBus or a section thereof. There is consensus that sourcing isn't sufficient nor independent to establish notability for the bus. Star  Mississippi  02:04, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

903 (PTV Bus)

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

This article about a bus route does not have the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources to establish notability. The use of this bus route for locally made electric buses garnered some coverage, but it is more about electric buses than the route. Whpq (talk) 03:05, 23 October 2022 (UTC)


 * your edits made here are clearly unconstructive it will be best for this page if you leave it alone. You will be welcomed to give it edits that will improve this page. The afd will be replaced with an afi as judged by your last edit your clear goal to to delete this page NotOrrio (talk) 03:29, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * This isn't really an appropriate or effective way of trying to establish WP:Consensus, if this is too personal for you it might be best to take a step back and return with a clearer head.  Dr vulpes  (💬 • 📝) 06:11, 23 October 2022 (UTC)


 * Comment Went though the sources and checked them out. I would say this appears to be almost notable but I'm honestly on the fence.

 Dr vulpes  (💬 • 📝) 06:12, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I strongly disagree with this assessment. These bus routes are government run, so the Department of Transport, Public Transport Victoria, and the Premier of Victoria are in no way independent as asserted in this source assessment table.  The Bus and Coach article mentions route 903.  It's a single sentence; two if we are being very generous and that is hardly rising to even partial significant coverage.  Moovit is a bus route and schedule.  The site is a directory of such routes.  There is nothing unknown about whether it contributes to notability.  It flat out does not. The only source that moves the notability bar a smidge is the Driven article.

This is what the source assessment table should look like setting aside all the sources you skipped.


 * -- Whpq (talk) 15:25, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * When I posted there were seven sources Special:Diff/1117716600. Unless I've missed something here, if so if you could please show me so I would greatly appreciate it.  Dr vulpes  (💬 • 📝) 20:06, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I misread the timestamps. -- Whpq (talk) 03:15, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Since the table was published post I have added additional sources including 2 pages from an independant victorian transport article. In addition the original kinetic article posted was to back up the was there to back up the section "Since 31 January 2022, this route has been operated by bus operator Kinetic Melbourne." NotOrrio (talk) 02:32, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
 * also it is possible to use news articles to back up the information collected from kinetic NotOrrio (talk) 02:33, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
 * None of what you added is useful for establishing notability, Some guy's blog isn't a reliable source, and Kinetic is contracted to run this bus route so is not an independent source. -- Whpq (talk) 03:18, 24 October 2022 (UTC)


 * REDIRECT to SmartBus, the article fails WP:GNG, requires significant coverage in multiple independent secondary sources. Bus timetables are not an acceptable sources and Kinetic is a primary source.Dan arndt (talk) 06:40, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * a bus timetable is a reliable sorce for determing what stops the bus route serves, to back it up for there were two sources for this a primary source (PTV) and a secondary Source (Moovit) NotOrrio (talk) 08:08, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I know one of the arguments to avoid using in deletion is to not mention other articles but I want to show that stop information used as a source for where the bus serves is the norm for wikipeida bus route pages for example  https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=London_Buses_route_1&direction=next&oldid=983282445 uses  the source https://tfl.gov.uk/bus/route/1 for the section current route.  NotOrrio (talk) 08:16, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Bus timetables are an acceptable source though it's important to include the date of the timetable as they are subject to change. That being said, they don't help establish notability. But they are an acceptable source. Garuda3 (talk) 08:31, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Bus timetables are not independent of the subject, nor are they substantial coverage of it. Basically a list of times and locations. Oaktree b (talk) 03:50, 30 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Transportation and Australia. Shellwood (talk) 06:53, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep per Dr Vulpes' source analysis above. The bus route doesn't have to be the primary topic of an article for it to count as significant coverage. Garuda3 (talk) 14:09, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Are you agreeing with the assessment that the government responsible for the bus system is an independent source? Which specific articles establish notability and why? -- Whpq (talk) 15:29, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * That's... exactly the opposite of what WP:SIGCOV says. Now you're just making stuff up. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 20:52, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

Relisting comment: We have 3 different source assessment tables that aren't in agreement with each other so I'm going to relist this discussion for another week. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 03:24, 30 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I have updated Dr_vuples citation table as there was a problem with the ptv source which caused it to redirect to https://www.ptv.vic.gov.au/timetables/ however it now redirects to https://www.ptv.vic.gov.au/route/13690/903-altona-mordialloc/.  NotOrri  (talk) 5:20, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Smartbus per Whqp's excellent source analysis. Does not meet GNG. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 20:54, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep Per Dr Vuples source assesment analysis. Although some sources may not be reliable there are enough reliable sources for this page to be considerd notableNotOrrio (talk) 5:54, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Redirect per nom. Just another run of the mill bus route that doesn't require special treatment with its own article. Ajf773 (talk) 08:32, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Whether a topic deserves its own article isnt a justifiable reason to delete or change and article to redirect. If you think that it is by your logic you should also suggest redirect the 100s wikipedia pages that are based on a single bus route.   NotOrrio (talk) 10:41, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Whether a topic deserves its own article is exactly the reason why we would delete or redirect. -- Whpq (talk) 12:47, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
 * What? That doesn't make any sense at all. WP:ATD-R says exactly the opposite. You need to learn how our policies and guidelines work. See also WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 12:49, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Smartbus per 's excellent analysis. I'm afraid that I have to disagree with 's source assessment table here somewhat. Except for The Driven being WP:SIGCOV, none of the other refs IMHO constitute of significant coverage. Moovit is categorised on their table as WP:SIGCOV, but IMHO is a directory-like database that fails WP:SIGCOV and WP:RS. In contrast, the rest are routine listings and a few sentences coverage that are not significant coverage and shouldn't be considered as partial significant coverage (e.g., this is a 5-sentence routine announcement, this mentions the route in a short paragraph while listing other routes). I appreciate the article's creator working on this, but their argument seems to be textbook WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. Many thanks!  VickKiang   (talk)  02:39, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Delete Government websites aren't independent of the subject and we have no media covering the route. Almost appears promotional. Oaktree b (talk) 03:49, 30 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Would you consider a redirect to the Smartbus article where this route is listed? -- Whpq (talk) 04:04, 30 October 2022 (UTC)
 * That's fine. Oaktree b (talk) 14:20, 30 October 2022 (UTC)


 * Redirect to SmartBus as alternative to deletion. Deus et lex (talk) 11:20, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Smartbus Lightburst (talk) 01:08, 7 November 2022 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.