Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/905 board


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result of the debate was delete. King of &hearts;   &diams;   &clubs;   &spades;  04:36, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

905 board
Looks like webforum vanity. Original research, doesn't meet WP:WEB, etc etc. Doesn't have its own domain name so an Alexa rank is impossible to determine. &mdash;Lamentation ( 01:32, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete The nom says it all (including the etc etc part). -- Kicking222 01:34, 14 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I would just like to note that the 905 board is not only used by members of the immediate music scene in the Southern Ontario area. The board has garnered enough attention that it is frequented by music fans from places all over Canada such as Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, Montreal and Halifax.  Additionally, users from the UK also make use of the forum.16:49, 18 June 2006 (UTC)Jeff K


 * The site and board have played an important part in the creation of many bands that are important to the post-punk music movement. That movement is an important part of the music scene today, as can be seen by massive record sales by bands such as Fall Out Boy.


 * The 905 music scene could be the next Seattle or Orange County as far as popular music is concerned. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SnaX (talk • contribs)


 * When that happens, feel free to write an article. Aplomado  talk 01:44, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
 * When that happens, someone will edit this entry to include the continuing influence of the 905 board, community and music. SnaX 14:37, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

So what possible reason do you have passing judgement here?24.36.179.32 03:56, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete. "Could be" are the key words here. Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. As of today, not notable. Fan1967 01:43, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't understand why it is you people think you are capable of deciding what is and is not notable? Are you some kind of masters of the various cultures and movements of the present day? There are millions of people that listen to the bands Silverstein, Alexisonfire and Boys Night Out. Thousands who idolozie them, latch onto the cultures of these bands and consider them a serious part of who they are. Surely as masters of culture you've all been to high schools lately? You've seen the way emo / punk is becoming the mainstream in todays youth? An entire generation is growing up on this new type of music, and a large majority of it is coming from Southern Ontario; specifically, the 905 music scene. But I wouldn't expect you guys to know anything about that. And I'm almost certain you don't.


 * I'm from Southern Ontario, I worked in a college radio station, I know many people in the S. Ontario scene, and I vote strong delete. Simply not noteworthy enough. BoojiBoy 04:13, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Chances are no one from our community would want to listen to your station. That's not meant to discredit you or your station, just a statement of fact pointing out that you live in a different musical world than the community this entry is about SnaX 14:36, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I've worked with many of the bands you've named and interviewed a member of one of them. I still say delete. BoojiBoy 23:57, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete. Jeeeeez why do people need to advertise their stupid forums here. Aplomado  talk 01:44, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete as per nom. Artw 01:58, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
 * this is not vanity or advertising. the 905 board has been(at least in part) the breading ground for some of Canada's largest underground, & mainstream musical acts. To deny the 905 board community's entry into the history books would be an outrage. Besides, isn't the persuit to add point of reference where reference is lacking the whole goal of Wikipedia? Or is "the Man" still writing history? xo Chuck aka "the air of a new age" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.193.221.141 (talk • contribs)
 * Look, don't complain to us for nominating the article for deletion when there's nothing in the article to suggest that the subject of this article is notable. If it truly is the breeding ground for some of Canada's largest underground and mainstream musical acts, surely you can cite this using reliable third-party sources to prove this. Otherwise, we're just taking the word of an anonymous internet user. Aplomado  talk 02:05, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete. Did someone post a response to the AfD discussion at the top of this section? That's a violation of Wiki-etiquette. I wish the people behind this board the best of luck, but it is not NOW notable. Inter lingua  talk 02:04, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete: I looked at the article and five bands were listed, now I'm not a scenester or anything but in my opinion five bands does not make a "scene" much less a "seattle sound" like phenominon. Deathawk 02:11, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Believe it or not, wikipedia is not just an American site. In Canada, where the 905 scene and board are located, 5 bands is a lot. we are a country of 30 million, and we consider Canadian success and success in the US very important to our (Canadian) music scene. All of these bands sell well in the US and tour regularly, and more are on the way. just because it's not top-40 spit out by the big record companies to sell pepsi doesn't mean it's not relevant to anyone. There are many people who use wikipedia outside of the people who frequent the "articles for deletion" section. If you want to help us use proper citations and wiki-conduct (or whatever you call it!) to improve the entry, please do.


 * I kind of thought the whole point of wikipedia was to be on the cutting edge of pop-culture (as well as academia and other areas)?


 * the wiki entry provides new x-linking with all the bands and personalities on wiki already...which is the whole idea behind the internet.


 * Tim Berners-Lee is rolling over in his grave somewhere.

SnaX 02:21, 14 June 2006 (UTC)


 * maybe snax should have mentioned finger 11... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.198.161.138 (talk • contribs)


 * I'm pretty certain that Wikipedia, and the internet, will survive. Artw 02:58, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
 * "I kind of thought the whole point of wikipedia was to be on the cutting edge of pop-culture". You thought wrong. Fan1967 14:42, 14 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Delete Not notable per WP:WEB. --Starionwolf 03:48, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete, fails WP:WEB and WP:NOR, vanity. --Coredesat 04:11, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete, fails WP:WEB, WP:VAIN. --Terence Ong (talk 04:39, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete per above. &mdash; Khoikhoi 04:41, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete WP:WEB, insufficient internet profile. Jammo (SM247) 05:03, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete... per nom. Why do people do this? It's because Wikipedia content is valuable on google searches, especially since it is mirrored by plenty of other sites... oh and vanity. - Motor (talk) 10:12, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete bad formatting and grammatical errors. and i think i'll cry 'bloody vanity' as well, per above/nom. --Paaerduag 10:43, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:WEB. Doesn't even have its own domain name!  Andrew Lenahan -  St ar bli nd  11:24, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete per above reasons. -- Xyra  e  l  T 14:33, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete Doesn't fulfill WP:WEB currently. Wikipedia would look pretty bad if it had an article on every web forum that exists. Amazinglarry 18:18, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm on the fence on this one. I would say keep because it has had an influance, and anything influential is worth knowing about, but it does fail to meet WP:WEB criteria, seeing as it's never (apparently) even had so much as a newspaper article that says, "hey, if you want to know what bands are playing when, check this website" written about it.  So, that said, very weak delete ONUnicorn 19:06, 14 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the actual helpful advice and comments beyond "delete, breaks infraction code 38240:ALPHA" or something equally insider. The simple answer to the newspaper question is that the board IS a source of information. People don't check newspapers to tell them to check the board...they just...check the board. Like many influential internet sites, it's beyond just one purpose. it's a community, a source of information and more. That said, there have been many articles that talk about bands forming due to the board, shows the board has put on, articles about me (Mark Johnston, the foudner), etc. these were all in local papers, that don't have internet articles, only the physical medium. since we are based in small(er) communities (rather than Toronto for example), we don't have many of those "underground" or subculture media sources. most of our users find us by word-of-mouth or smaller things like zines and band links. SnaX 19:44, 14 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Strong Delete. Sheesh! This fails on sooo many levels wrt wiki standards. (Aside to Mr SnaX, your report of the death of Tim Berners-Lee is greatly exaggerated!). The article lacks verifiable sources, it fails to establish the notability of its subject other than the conflation in the mind of the article's author. The article also fails to establish the importance of its subject outside a very tight geographical area with a small population. Wikipedia may proclaim itself to be many things but it is not a billboard. Eddie.willers 21:31, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I was just hoping the mention of Berners-Lee would manage to scare off some egg-heads who thought they had easy pickings! The reason we lack verifiable sources is because there aren't any. This is a word-of-mouth and in-cd-booklets and in-a-zine-that-only-400-people-get kind of thing. It doesn't show up in the New York Times or on The Insider. Does that mean it's less important than the new J-Lo album? I'd argue no. So much of what become popular music is from scenes and communities exactly like this one. The relevance can be seen Canada-wide, as shown by this recent post by one of our members. "it just completely blows my mind. i'm 1,900 kilometers away from burlington and some dude comes up the stairs of my work, points and says "HEY! YOU'RE BOOZEY THE CLOWN!" SnaX 23:51, 14 June 2006 (UTC)


 * KEEP. When asked about the history of a succesful band like silverstein, one has but to point to the 905 board. This is evident in their DVD and CDs where they thank the 905 board for the formation of their band. Silverstein has had a high degree of success in the US and plays the WARPED TOURS regularly, a concert that goes on in the US every year. Silverstein is just one of many bands that has its history linked to the 905 board. Other bands include Finger 11, TFB, Jersey, etc. The 905 board is a community of people with similar interests. Just in the way that communities and groups have their own post on the wikipedia, does not the 905 board have a right to have a similar post? Our group of members is 3000 strong, a lot bigger than many other groups on this website. -- westpointfan.


 * Strong Keep. It's regional, but I've been hearing about the 905 Board from people around here for years and years. I wouldn't expect anyone to have heard of it outside this geographical region, but that doesn't mean it's not notable. - Rainwarrior 22:47, 14 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Thread on the board. Can we speedy this? BoojiBoy 00:00, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Did you read the thread, or just see it? we're talking about the process, and about wikipedia in general. That's actually what you do on a message board. SnaX 00:10, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I read the thread. I think it's interesting that you explicity say that you consider Wikipedia an experiment in democracy, when WP:NOT dedicates a whole paragraph to explaining that "Wikipedia is not an experiment in democracy".  That doesn't indicate that you have a very strong sense of what Wikipedia is all about at all.  Why do people show up with a one-day-old account and feel that they know better than everyone else on wikipedia what kinds of articles it should accept?  I just don't get the logic there.  For what it's worth, some people in the thread do seem to have the right idea, that an article on the music scene the forum covers (rather than the forum itself) would be a far better idea. Andrew Lenahan -  St ar bli nd  01:25, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Just slightly curious as to what radio station BoojiBoy works for, because I worked for a radio station in Ottawa, ON, where they not only had a great collection of the indepedently released CDs from many 905 bands, many of the DJs were very familiar with the 905 Board and likened it to their equally influential punkottawa.com.
 * I never said I hadn't heard of it. But the fact I've heard of it doesn't mean that it passes WP:WEB. BoojiBoy 01:26, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Boojiboy... what are your reasons for it not passing? you say its not noteworthy... yet you've heard of it. you've yet to address any of the arguments presented for keeping this article. i would be very interested to what your reasons are that it needs to be deleted.

oh and boojiboy if you had really worked with many of the bands that were mentioned, you would know about their strong roots formulated from the 905 board and would have a healthy respect for the community that they are a part of.

That's why I have voted to delete. BoojiBoy 02:57, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I know about their roots. But let's review WP:WEB, shall we?
 * 1. The content itself has been the subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent of the site itself. No internet message board can meet this due to the constantly-changing content inherent to a message board.
 * 2. The website or content has won a well known and independent award, either from a publication or organisation. Nope.
 * 3. The content is distributed via a site which is both well known and independent of the creators, either through an online newspaper or magazine, an online publisher, or an online broadcaster. Not that either.

Looking at this bit of history it’s apparent that the 905 board is reliving this exact situation. There are plenty of bands that have made international success thanks to the 905 board and the scene here is so tightly knit that new talent is constantly being brought together because of this board, it’s almost an exact repeat of the Seattle scene at the beginning stages. The 905 is the birthplace of the hardcore scene and will be put in history for that in the future and to remove this now is only temporarily silencing the inevitable. Keep this page, its integral to a small part of history. It’s not going to change lives but it’s defiantly made a lot of peoples better. Let the page stay. - --r0ssr0ss 04:22, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
 * To the person who stated it's nothing like the Seattle scene because they only posted 5 bands, I say this: Name more than 5 bands that were huge from Seattle in the early 90's. It was more the huge local scene, the coming together of people and the collaboration of different musical tastes that sparked the scene that eventually created a genre of music known as grunge. The few bands that made it big were just lucky enough to be known as the founders.


 * I am blown away by all the "vanity" comments made by wiki users with their own little wiki pages. All of you posting "vanity!!! delete!!!" with your little blue names make me laugh. I love wikipedia, and value your efforts to keep it current and alive, but to suggest that you deserve a wiki entry, when a community of 3000+ who have had an influential hand in guiding the southern Ontario (and Canadian as a whole) music scene makes me throw up my hands in frustration. It seems more like an stuffy old room you'd find hidden away at some university filled with graying academics past their prime, than a relevant new style of encyclopedia and experiment in democracy.

As for the calls of NOR, I find it hard to believe that just because a newspaper or magazine doesn't mention something, it is instantly cited as worthless. All kinds of people list us on their blogs, myspaces, band webpages, zines (that's an independent magazine made by a person or group of people).

This is part of a music subculture, not the mainstream media. Does that mean it's not influential? If you think that, you really are out of the loop. SnaX 14:46, 14 June 2006 (UTC)


 * While the 905 board has spear headed musical movements, most importantly GRADE, these people jsut want proof before ppl site it. Grade DID start Screamo, thats the truth.That is the angle, but out of the 905 there are way more than 5 bands succeeding that use this board right now:


 * The Reason - Smallman records
 * Finger Eleven ( gold record)
 * Idle Sons - EMI
 * Boys Night Out - Ferret
 * Alexisonfire - Distort and affiliates all over the world ( gold records)
 * Silverstein - Victory Records
 * Tommy Swick - Universal
 * The Video Dead - Stereo Dynamite /EMI/Stay Gold/Universal
 * The Creepshow - Stereo Dynamite/EMI
 * Jersey - EMI/Fueld By Ramen
 * The Fullblast - BBR/Universal
 * City and Colour (gold records)
 * Billy Talent

-In contribution to the argument that the 905 boards appearance on Wikipedia is 'vanity', I'd like to state that as someone who isn't a resident of Southern Ontario, nor Canada but London England that the board itself is nothing but a resource. Its appearance on Wikipedia doesn’t act as only a statement for those engaged in the Southern Ontario scene but countless others. I know a substantial number of fans of the aforementioned bands who have expressed need to know about the 905 scene and the board itself is vital to that knowledge. If the relevance of the bands who have come from this scene are being debated in terms of musical viability the commercial sales of a handful who have been birthed and aided by and from the 905 have surpassed 100,000 records. A number of the bands mentioned above have achieved success and acclaim worldwide and noting the relevance of the 905 board could be compared debating the chronicling and relevance of Malcolm McLarens SEX shop (birth place of the Sex Pistols etc) in terms of genre definition, for infact a genre was undeniable spurned from the area, and has affected the musical world and subsequent generations. In addition to this, as a member of the recording industry and the press, I happen to know several people in England who are also members of the recording industry and the press who have used the board for not only search of new artists, indications as to youth culture interest progressions. The inclusion of the history of the 905 board on Wikipedia can do nothing but aide work of these people, as it is futile to make use of knowledge gained from a subject without knowing its history. Only those who can argue otherwise can deny the fact that as Wikipedia is a resource for cultural and intellectual research the 905 boards appearance on it can afford to go amiss. -Zara
 * Delete Advertisement for a non-notable board. Fails to meet the requirements for WP:WEB as well.--Auger Martel 07:54, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete as per nomination. Jgamekeeper 11:18, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete Local interest only. No sign of notability.  The article doesn't really even claim it. Ace of Sevens 14:28, 18 June 2006 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.