Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/ATI Radeon 9250

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was no consensus --cesarb 18:28, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

ATI Radeon 9250
Jeesh. A whole page dedicated to an out-of-date graphics card made by ATI, complete with Benchmark scores. Its not even a well known or notable model. Is this a review magazine or an encyclopedia? If this user wishes to contribute, can I kindly suggest he enhance the exisiting Radeon page, as thats the present location for detail on ATI cards. Timharwoodx 20:19, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[anonymous:06-11-05 5:40 est]I suppose according to the published Wikipedia Deletion policy, specifically the "Such a minor branch of a subject that it doesn't deserve an article" portion, that this is indeed a good candidate for action.

Here are the bones I particularly have with the article.

First, the ATI Radeon, model 9250 is not... I don't know, a unique product. It is a rather vague marketing designation used for Radeon based graphics cards using a certain IC that happen to fit a very broad profile. Now in and of itself, there's nothing wrong with that, but it's my opinion, that it's a poor entry to have as on it's own, rather it should be an addendum to the entry on the IC that the model 9250 is a subset of.

Second, I have some issues with the benchmarks cited. It's rather dangerous, in my humble opinion, to casually cite benchmarks with the addresses of websites, and I also believe that it is in poor style to just randomly quote benchmarks, rather I think that there should be a site wide policy on graphics card benchmarks.[/anonymous]


 * Delete Not notable enough and, given the rate of progress of graphics cards, irrelevant in a year. DJ Clayworth 02:40, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. Can't think of a good reason to delete this. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 03:35, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. Pages like this.  An encyclopedia is a catalog of facts, among other things.  -- Un focused 04:32, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep and cleanup. Card has some notability. JamesBurns 05:37, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete Can't think of a good reason to keep this. WP is not a general knowledgebase. --Xcali 05:39, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete If this one is kept, then there's going to be an article for every Radeon model. I think a good compromise is to do it the way GeForce articles are done: one article per generation which encompasses several different models, but all essentially of the same generation. In this case one article would include Radeon 8500, 8500LE, 9000 Pro, 9000, 9200, and 9250 since all of them are essentially the same chip design. --Berkut 13:05, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep or Merge If you don't like those benchmarks, you can remove those, but keep the page. IMHO it would be useful to have a separate article for every procuct, not a bad thing -- as long as it is well organized. We are not running out of paper. --Thv 10:13, 2005 Jun 20 (UTC)

Yeah, but if this stays, then what happens next? We get separate pages for EVERY electronics product ever made? Complete with all known technical details, and all recorded benchmarks? Then what? We dispute which are valid benchmarks to include? Surely it should be as it is now, one page per NOTABLE series of products manufactured. Its a pandoras box to vast amounts of mindless content no-one will ever read. Timharwoodx 12:59, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment. I can't see what the problem is with an article on all the electronics products ever produced.  We're not running out of paper.  Your belief that someone won't read them seems to be based on the fact that you think that you, personally, would have no use for the information.  Not good evidence.  Moreover your invocation of the word "notable" is not right; there is no notability clause in the deletion criteria except for biographical articles. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 19:04, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

'I can't see what the problem is with an article on all the electronics products ever produced.' Have you any idea how much rubbish that would introduce into the Wiki? What, multiple pages dedicated to benchmarks, on every graphics card, sound card, widget, and CPU ever released? Well, while we're at it, why not put every press release ATI ever released into the WIKI as well? I've put several pages up for deletion before that were just ATI and NVIDIA press releases, and they always got delted. WIKI is not a PR vehicle for large multinational compaies. Maybe you think it is. Besides which, the article is complete nonsense, just form a technical point of view. And since a lot of the IT content is my writing, i.e. AMD, NVIDIA, ATI, etc, I know my stuff. Actually the 9250 is a re-spin of the old 8500 core, and if you wanted to write up the 9250, you would list it as a sub category on the 8500 page.


 * Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information

My grounds for deletion is as above, and the WIKI guidelines preclude the holding of info on every electronics product ever made. That would be an indiscriminate list of information. Timharwoodx 21:35, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

A little WP:RPA has been applied in refactoring the above comments, the sense of which I've attempted to retain.

You're right that press releases should be deleted from Wikipedia--they would be source documents and, subject to copyright and licensing, may be candidates for Wikipedia. You're also right that there are questions about the technical specifications of this family of cards--it owed more to marketing than technology. But those are content questions that can be dealt with by appropriate categorization and editorial content in the article.

While it is true that Wikipedia is not an "indiscriminate collection of information", articles on electronic devices need be no such thing, any more than articles on Shakespeare plays, Beethoven symphonies, Cities in Pennsylvania, musicians with platinum disks, or episodes of The Simpsons.

YOu ask "can I kindly suggest [that the creator of this article] enhance the exisiting Radeon page, as thats the present location for detail on ATI cards" Well it was up to you to do that when you encountered this article--just merge and redirect. Instead of which you put it up for deletion, thus raising the question of whether this information is completely worthless. May I suggest that perhaps it is not. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 21:52, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Since I am one of the resident IT experts, I try to follow the guideline of do not bite the newcomers. I've just added "The 9250 was launched in summer 2004, supporting the older PCI bus interface, and 256mb of memory," to the Radeon page. Thats the only worthwhile content I can find on the 9250 page. I hardly think the fact the 9250 has the CATALYST drivers is news. MERGED. Now delete this nonsense. There is a specialist IT WIKI in operation. The main WIKI is not the place to list every electronics product ever made, with full benchmarks and complete data sheets. Timharwoodx 22:35, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

wikinerds.org - Please take your content to wikinerds. Thats the forum for technical data sheets and benchmarks on every electronics product ever made. Timharwoodx 22:38, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

This is Wikipedia. not wikinerds. The question here is whether the article in question should be deleted from here, not whether it should exist somewhere else. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 22:51, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Well, it clearly should be deleted from WIKI. I was just trying to point out plenty of other WIKIs now exist, and if you wanted detailed benchmarks and spec sheets on EVERY ELECTRONICS PRODUCT EVER MANUFACTURED, WIKINERDS is the forum for you. They welcome it. The thing is, its people like me who wrote a lot of the IT content in the WIKI, and now some guys come in late in the day, and start adding poor quality material. Well, I'm not having it. I've not written this much content, to see the IT section of WIKI reduced to nonsense, recycled press releases, and page after page of uninformative data sheets. I mean, not to be boring, but the 9250 is just a re-spin of the 8500 core. If someone wanted to write up the 9250 they'd have started an 8500 page, and stuck the 9250 at the bottom of it. Its not even a logical presentation. The page is technically illiterate, misconceived, poorly presented, and irrelevant. Timharwoodx 22:24, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages.  Please do not edit this page .