Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Aaron Bastani (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Ultimately, consensus here leans towards delete. References to something someone said are not enough to pass GNG. There need to be better sources that are about Bastani if we're going to have an article about him. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 23:20, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

Aaron Bastani
AfDs for this article: 
 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

This had been deleted at an earlier AfD, then brought to review at Deletion review/Log/2017 June 13. The result of that review was to relist at AfD. This is a purely administrative action; I offer no opinion on the outcome. -- RoySmith (talk) 23:29, 22 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete, as nominator at the previous AfD, per my arguments there. None of the reliable sources identified in the Deletion review discussion contain any substantial discussion of Bastani. Other arguments offered (e.g. having been interviewed on the news and having lots of followers on Twitter) have no bearing on notability. (If the result of Articles for deletion/Novara Media (2nd nomination) is keep, then this ought to be redirected there rather than being deleted.) – Arms &amp; Hearts (talk) 00:08, 23 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 03:14, 23 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Journalism-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 03:14, 23 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of United Kingdom-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 03:14, 23 June 2017 (UTC)


 * Keep The enormous number of sources presented demonstrate clear notability. AusLondonder (talk) 03:44, 23 June 2017 (UTC)
 * See related Articles for deletion/Novara Media (2nd nomination). Shawn in Montreal (talk) 13:04, 23 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep -- I sure hope nominator appreciates that lot of us expect that, prior to making a nomination, one should conduct a meaningful and fairminded review of potential references, as per WP:BEFORE. IMO, it would be best if all partcipants at an AFD conducted their own web-search, as many well-meaning nominators try to comply with BEFORE, but just aren't skilled enough to do so competently, or do not appreciate that meaningful compliance with BEFORE requires them to not obfuscate factors in favour of considering the topic notable.  I did my own web search.  When I looked at the results tossed up by the google scholar search I found that several scholars quoted notable phrases Bastani coined.
 * In a discussion of how people should cope in a future where most skilled work is automated Mareile Pfannebecker and J.A. Smith quote Bastani
 * The Long Read: What Will We Do in the Post-Work Utopia?


 * ''"For many people –academics and activists included – the prospect of living between the allotment and the Hegel discussion group might seem idyllic. But there are plenty of others for whom this post-work utopia could sound like hard work: a mix of newly idealised domestic labour on the one hand, and a haughty obligation to constantly improve ourselves on the other. The accusation is anticipated in the slogan coined by new media activist Aaron Bastani. ‘Fully Automated Luxury Communism’ is a provocative and maybe partly tongue-in-cheek phrase gaining traction as a means of summarising a future where most waged labour has been automated, everyone is sustained by UBI and advanced Green technologies keep all in a state of ecologically-sound plenty.
 * ''"For many people –academics and activists included – the prospect of living between the allotment and the Hegel discussion group might seem idyllic. But there are plenty of others for whom this post-work utopia could sound like hard work: a mix of newly idealised domestic labour on the one hand, and a haughty obligation to constantly improve ourselves on the other. The accusation is anticipated in the slogan coined by new media activist Aaron Bastani. ‘Fully Automated Luxury Communism’ is a provocative and maybe partly tongue-in-cheek phrase gaining traction as a means of summarising a future where most waged labour has been automated, everyone is sustained by UBI and advanced Green technologies keep all in a state of ecologically-sound plenty.


 * }
 * C Lenhardt, in “Free Peltier Now!” The Use of Internet Memes in American Indian Activism wrote:


 * ''"The underlying premise, in the words of Aaron Bastani, is “that Internet-mediated memetics represent a fundamental shift in how social movements, as new forms of social practice, rear themselves and how quickly they spread, are adopted and reach critical mass.”
 * ''"The underlying premise, in the words of Aaron Bastani, is “that Internet-mediated memetics represent a fundamental shift in how social movements, as new forms of social practice, rear themselves and how quickly they spread, are adopted and reach critical mass.”


 * }
 * In In Defence of Occupy's Politics RC Smith wrote:


 * ''"As Aaron Bastani recently commented in his programme on Novara FM, “what if the people (i.e., demos) – who are sovereign – want to change existing relations of property?” The answer is fierce resistance by the state, as evidenced in how “Occupy was systematically destroyed by a highly coordinated attack that spanned several prominent institutional structures and channels of power …/ which includes the use of tactical violence and police brutality”.
 * ''"As Aaron Bastani recently commented in his programme on Novara FM, “what if the people (i.e., demos) – who are sovereign – want to change existing relations of property?” The answer is fierce resistance by the state, as evidenced in how “Occupy was systematically destroyed by a highly coordinated attack that spanned several prominent institutional structures and channels of power …/ which includes the use of tactical violence and police brutality”.


 * }
 * In Postsubjective simulation and digital culture NS Wade wrote:


 * ''"Even critics such as Aaron Bastani who contests the reduction of freedoms in simulation concede that "The erosion of publicly owned media, specifically in developed countries during the last several decades, has exacerbated [recuperation]" and “The consequence has been a persistent deepening of social communication into the subsumption of capital”
 * ''"Even critics such as Aaron Bastani who contests the reduction of freedoms in simulation concede that "The erosion of publicly owned media, specifically in developed countries during the last several decades, has exacerbated [recuperation]" and “The consequence has been a persistent deepening of social communication into the subsumption of capital”


 * }
 * In The Future of Talent: Reflections from the World Future Society Conference Hannah Steiner-Mitchell, writing about a time when automation eliminated most jobs, and most people lived on a guaranteed basic income, wrote:


 * ''"In an interview with The Guardian, Aaron Bastani (co-founder of Novara Media) explains what this possible future may look like:
 * The demand would be a 10- or 12-hour working week, a guaranteed social wage, universally guaranteed housing, education, healthcare and so on ... There may be some work that will still need to be done by humans, like quality control, but it would be minimal.
 * The demand would be a 10- or 12-hour working week, a guaranteed social wage, universally guaranteed housing, education, healthcare and so on ... There may be some work that will still need to be done by humans, like quality control, but it would be minimal.


 * }
 * In the original AFD offered the opinion that Bastani did not measure up to any of the inclusion criteria of GNG, Journalist, or Academic.  Well Notability_(people) has inclusion criteria "The person is known for originating a significant new concept, theory, or technique."  Authors quote Bastani for his vision of a future where robots have freed humans from drudgery, leaving us to either work short work-weeks at truly creative work robots can't do.  I suggest this means he does measure up to this criteria.


 * A common misconception one sees in AFD are claims individuals should not be considered to measure up to the criteria for including an article devoted to them, because the article doesn't touch on the mundane milestones, like place of birth, or where they studied, or whether they were married, or had children. In another recent AFD very experienced contributor DGG said, in part: "Of course biographic detail is nice, but unnecessary--a notable person is notable because of the work they do, not by virtue of being born. Even under the GNG do not need in depth coverage of the person's personal life, just of the aspects of his life that bring forth notability."  Geo Swan (talk) 22:14, 26 June 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete Previously deleted. Now here it is again. Sources like Guardian has not covered about this person, but rather this person making an opinion about something. How it is relevant for an encyclopedia to create an article for this individuals? There are thousands of people present opinion on major things happening worldwide, even from political background. Nothing make an individual notable enough to be here. Wikipedia is not a Profile. Light2021 (talk) 18:59, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep Regardless of the outcome of the previous AfD, the present article clearly presents a Notable individual offering original insights (per WP:PROF and WP:CREATIVE), documented in multiple reliable sources. Newimpartial (talk) 19:52, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Can you please quote some reliable sources covering about him in-depth? where he is not just giving opinions on subjects? Light2021 (talk) 19:57, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Well, it's true that the most systematic coverage directed at him as a person comes from the Daily Mail and the Mail on Sunday, which are not considered reliable. But this is what I have to say about that: the Mail is considered UNreliable mostly for its fact-free editorial pronouncements and its reprinting of sensational stories. The stories it printed about Bastani involved actual investigative journalism directed at him personally as well as at Momentum, and are independently substantiated; I would consider such an effort by a major media outlet to contribute to his Notability. Newimpartial (talk) 21:19, 29 June 2017 (UTC) 03:54, 30 June 2017 (UTC)
 * And hence you proves the point. Thank you. We do not create Wikipedia article based on personal belief of notability. Its the public media that defines the notability. Else person might be important at their place, but not for Encyclopedia. Light2021 (talk) 04:01, 30 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Did you actually read my argument about the Mail coverage? That is an argument based on (1) Noticeboard discussions of the Mail on WP (2) WP:N and the GNG (3) reading the Mail itself (shudder) and (4) reading the Mail stories on Bastani. It doesn't reflect a mere 'personal belief'. Newimpartial (talk) 04:06, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Delete . I admit  that  he might  possibly  be notable, but  definitely  not according  to  Wikipedia's criteria. The  sources, which  comprise his own works, tweets, and other fleeting mentions of his work, just  don't  do  it. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 03:52, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Winged Blades Godric  04:17, 30 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep This comment might not be compliying with the "wikipedia" standards, but I simply was extremely happy to find a wikipedia entry about Aaron Bastami after I read one of his online articles on open democracy. Please keep it!" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.103.71.217 (talk) 10:27, 3 July 2017 (UTC)
 * New entry by unknown user. Suspicious on grounds of voting for Keep. Light2021 (talk) 15:58, 3 July 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete. "quoting memorable phrases" of a writer is not equivalent to the developing new theory standards of WP:PROF. This is not an academicv, and I'm not sure the standards thtereare even applicable; but he does not meet them;.  DGG ( talk ) 18:54, 3 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete--per DGG, and per lack of passing the GNG. A couple of quotes here and there don't make for notability. Drmies (talk) 20:29, 5 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete I looked where I can on the internets and all that I found were Daily Mail articles and nothing in the press that talks about this guy in any meaningful way. Does not pass GNG, so it should not get an article. Valeince (talk) 21:45, 5 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep I feel this does meet WP:BIO. There are sufficient third party references to Bastani from reliable third party sources, and he is referenced in several published books. While none of these sources offer "substantial" coverage on their own, I feel they are sufficient in number to meet the WP:BASIC notability guidelines. gbrading  (&tau;&alpha;l&kappa;) 13:33, 7 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete -- the sources presented above are interviews and passing mentions; these are insufficient to establish notability. To establish notability, we'd need 3rd party reviews and analysis of the subject's works, not quotes from the subject. K.e.coffman (talk) 02:03, 8 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete Its clear that there is an absence of substantial coverage. Tangential mentions or quotations aren't really going to be enough - especially as they were in the media and are therefore more likely to garner insubstantial fluff than non-media types. I would have expected profiles and articles specifically about if this person was personally notable. BLP requires that level of coverage. Spartaz Humbug! 11:12, 9 July 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.