Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Aaron John Waltke


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was Delete. -- May the Force be with you! Shreshth91 12:02, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Aaron John Waltke

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Here's fame for you: Aaron John Waltke is currently recognized as the Guinness World Record holder for the most t-shirts worn at one time by a single human being... No. really. Ludicrously trivial bid for fame. PROD tag added, but removed by creator on WP:INN grounds -- about which see also Matt McAllister and its brand-new AFD. Calton | Talk 09:25, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete I was just about to write that this is the most ludicrously trivial claim to fame I've seen in a long while... then I noticed the former holder of the same record, Matt McAllister has an article too. Wikipedia ain't the Guiness Book, folks. Andrew Lenahan -  St ar bli nd  14:00, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete per Wikipedia not being a mirror site for Guiness. Individual fails WP:BIO. Edison 14:45, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom, probably also auto-biography. Mak (talk)  17:44, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge I am the creator of this article, and I have been in communication with User:Calton on this issue. I added this article because I thought it was relevant to the previous article on Matt McAllister.  I am not making the argument that simply because both were included in the Guinness World Records that this automatically merits their inclusion in Wikipedia.  On the contrary, Waltke has been featured in dozens of newspapers, film, television and radio programs regarding his record (as I cited in the article) as well as publications on the history of the t-shirt (also cited in the article).  This includes an appearance on the CNN program of Glenn Beck's "Sick Twisted Freak", which gave him national exposure.  If these grounds aren't enough, I have already suggested to User:Calton that perhaps a merged article would be in order for the record itself, which gained even more attention in the past 6 months because of Matt McAllister, the previous record holder.  Matt McAllister became notable under the premises of a the Wikipedia definition of an internet phenomenon.  The viral YouTube video of his record breaking that was uploaded in September 2006 (which is linked in his Wikipedia article) has been very widely viewed (nearly 3,000,000 separate views as of this writing) on the initial uploaded site alone since its inception. This is far more internet exposure than many other videos listed under internet phenomenon, such as Gary Brolsma, who has not one but two separate articles about him (the other regarding his Numa Numa video) and whose cited video has been viewed around 1,000,000 times.  In addition to this, McAllister's internet popularity earned him a guest spot on the October 12th, 2006 episode of The Late Show with David Letterman, earning him further national exposure.  Because the record which made him famous was broken, I thought this merited some mention at least in his article, and possibly another independent article for Aaron John Waltke.  If the Wikipedia editors' consensus is that these biographies are too trivial to merit independent articles, then I would wholly endorse a merger into a general article about the record, but not a wholesale deletion of all mention of it.--GoodAaron 20:07, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
 * What is this " I have been in communication with User:Calton on this issue" supposed to mean? I've already expressed my opinion, and to repeat the message I left on your talk page:
 * Be aware that the argument that "Article X exists, so my article Y should, too" is extremely common and complete non-starter: it's so common, in fact, the rebuttal has its own shortcut, namely WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS. I refer you to there.


 * The other article [that is, Matt McAllister] is equally a ludicrously trivial bid for fame, and having an article on the subject of this "record" as a whole is not any better. I've put a PROD tag there, too.--Calton | Talk 09:13, 19 March 2007 (UTC)''
 * Calton, please try not to become defensive. I only meant that I had contacted you about contesting the article.  What I have tried to illustrate above is why WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS, which openly admits that it is neither an official policy or guideline but more of a "matter of opinion", is a bad argument to use here.  I will try to clarify this as best as I can below. As for the label of "ludicrously trivial bid for fame", I know of no other way to engage that kind of arbitrary assessment than by laying out my reasoning as rationally as possible as to why it is not "trivial" in the terms of notability.
 * Accepted Premises:
 * 1.) A Wikipedia article is eligible for deletion if it is not found to meet notability standards.
 * 2.) The achievement of a Guinness World Record alone is not enough to meet notability standards.
 * 3.) According to the above Wikipedia Editor consensus, Aaron John Waltke may not be eligible for notability as an independent article.
 * 4.) If Matt McAllister can be found to meet notability requirements, it is possible that Aaron John Waltke could be merged into the McAllister article as relevant information.
 * 5.) The Matt McAllister article may be eligible to meet notability standards on the grounds of the Wikipedia category internet phenomenon.
 * 6.) The notability standards of the Wikipedia category internet phenomenon are ambiguous, because there are no minimum quantifiable standards in place to define that category.
 * 7.) If there are no quantifiable standards in place to define a category, then there is no other option than to rely on examples of precedent to define that category.
 * 8.) Other undisputed examples within the Wikipedia category internet phenomenon include Gary Brolsma. Matt McAllister has received just as much exposure (as measured in the quantified number of views) with his World Record viral video as Gary Brolsma (see above).  On these terms of notability, the two articles are analogous.
 * 9.) Matt McAllister has also appeared on The Late Show with David Letterman for his World Record viral video.  Gary Brolsma was mentioned in the New York Times Entertainment section for his viral video.  On these terms of notability, the two articles are analogous.
 * THEREFORE: Since the Matt McAllister article appears to be eligible for notability on terms of the Wikipedia category internet phenomenon, and much of the information in the Aaron John Waltke article would be relevant as an addition to the Matt McAllister article, the McAllister article should be retained and the Aaron John Waltke article should be merged with it.--GoodAaron 00:46, 20 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Aaron, please try not to become verbose and nonsensical: WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS was pointed out to you to stop the complete non-starter that is the "Why does HE get an article and *I* can't" argument: been there, done that, got a closetful of t-shirts. You'll note that my response to your original WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS claim was to immediately slap a PROD tag onto the other article: if it's been removed, Matt McAllister is coming to AFD, too. That should be a tiny hint as to how convincing I found your argument to be.


 * Also, trying to imply that there was some sort of negotiation going with your completely meaningless "I have been in communication with User:Calton on this issue" in an attempt (it seems to me) to mislead readers was particularly irritating. --Calton | Talk 08:31, 20 March 2007 (UTC)


 * GoodAaron removed the PROD tag, big surprise, so now we have Articles for deletion/Matt McAllister. --Calton | Talk 08:38, 20 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Merge with Matt McAllister &rArr;    SWAT Jester    On Belay!  10:05, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete it's in Guinness if you want this information, fails WP:BIO easily.  Eliminator JR  Talk  10:08, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete. Holding a random Guiness world record like this doesn't qualify, IMO, as notability.  This will be a permanent stub, so it's not worth keeping.  Mango juice talk 21:01, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge with Matt McAllister.   — Jeff G. (talk&#124;contribs) 18:38, 22 March 2007 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.