Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Abdul Hakim Jan (Argandab druglord)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. -- Cirt (talk) 09:21, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

Abdul Hakim Jan (Argandab druglord)

 * – ( View AfD View log  •  )

Fails WP:N and WP:BIO. The only coverage is a few paragraphs in a single article from the Sydney Morning Herald - far below our notability requirements. Has an element of WP:NOT. Moreover, this is a negative BLP entry, where the standards for sourcing are required to be particularly stringent. Nsk92 (talk) 09:32, 30 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Afghanistan-related deletion discussions.  —Nsk92 (talk) 09:37, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Crime-related deletion discussions.  —Nsk92 (talk) 09:39, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete I have moved the article to Abdul Hakim Jan (Argandab warlord), for the article name could be seen as an attack on the subject. I agree with the nominator in his assessment of the article, this does not meet our notability standards. Yoenit (talk) 10:01, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't use the term "warlord" -- even when a newspaper or other WP:RS used it. I use "militia leader" instead. Not liking the name of an article is not one of the recommended criteria for deletion. Further, I suggest, in a nation where the national army is very weak, with only a few tens of thousands of reliably trained troops, any local leader who can call on a  private army of 1,000 individuals is notable. Geo Swan (talk)
 * call him militia leader, local leader or whatever, I don't care. Reason I moved it from is because your only source just "heard rumors" and never calls him a in the original text. With regards to notability: the size of his army is irrelevant, notability is determined by "substantial coverage in independent reliable sources". I think that snippet of text from a single article is insufficient for this purpose, but you are free to disagree. Yoenit (talk) 20:50, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep -- This nomination is misleading, when it asserts "the only coverage is a few paragraphs in a single article..." In fact the article devotes a dozen paragraphs, over 500 words, to Abdul Hakim Jan.  Yes, we should careful when we write about individuals.  We should go no farther than our references.  We should  use neutral, non-sensational wording.  I do not believe BLP or any other policy requires us to only carry hagiographies.  I believe I did manage to write about AHJ in appropriately neutral language, attributing all assertions to the reputable newspaper I was paraphrasing.  Geo Swan (talk) 19:38, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment AHJ appears to have a namesake, another leader, with an identical name, from his county. In this region different individuals with the same name is quite common.  Is it possible that Abdul Hakim Jan (Argandab tribal leader) was the same individual as Abdul Hakim Jan (Argandab druglord)? But no matter how likely or unlikely it might seem to me, this kind of speculation is not allowed.  I have encountered multiple pairs of individuals, with similar or identical names, where I didn't think there was sufficient justification to write that they were the same individual, or that they were different individuals. In those cases I make sure the articles on both individuals mention the other guy, and only go as far as the references go.  In the instance of the two AHJs I started both articles the same day.  Then no-one who encounters limited information on these guys is going to assume they are the same guy.  Geo Swan (talk) 19:38, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
 * If these are two different individuals (which we basically have to assume in the absence of conclusive evidence to the contrary), then the subject of this AfD manifestly fails WP:N since there is only a single source providing coverage of him - hence the article must be deleted. If the are the same individual as confirmed by reliable sources, then this article is a WP:Content fork of Abdul Hakim Jan (Argandab tribal leader) and hence it must be deleted as well. Either way, keeping this article violates our inclusion standards. Nsk92 (talk) 20:40, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
 * A reference I just came across, from 2006, says:
 * {| class="wikitable"


 * In Lashkar Gah, Abdul Hakim Jan, a legendary mujahadin fighter, and his entourage of 30 men, armed with colourfully painted AK-47s and rocket-propelled grenades, sauntered into the Ariana Super Café for a kebab lunch.
 * In Lashkar Gah, Abdul Hakim Jan, a legendary mujahadin fighter, and his entourage of 30 men, armed with colourfully painted AK-47s and rocket-propelled grenades, sauntered into the Ariana Super Café for a kebab lunch.


 * Hakim Jan was sacked as police chief of Maiwand because of his alleged links with the drugs trade. British officials said he was responsible for an assassination attempt on his successor in Maiwand before being placated with a government job in Kandahar.


 * }
 * Does this suggest there is just one individual named AHJ? The guy assassinated 11 months after the SMH article did hold a position in Kandahar -- Chief of a Police auxiliary.  Is it sufficient to suggest the two AHJ articles should be merged?  I dunno.  Geo Swan (talk) 21:45, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:05, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Delete. Six of the eight references point to another guy of the same name, and the two that refer to this guy are not enough to move this out of the realm of WP:NOTNEWS into WP:N. Location (talk) 01:06, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.