Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Abdulaziz Saleh Sultan Sinan Al Dossary


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   redirect to Royal_Bahraini_Air_Force. As a compromise, redirected to the article which already mentions the incident. If there is sufficient RS to add information to there, please do Black Kite 19:00, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

Abdulaziz Saleh Sultan Sinan Al Dossary

 * – ( View AfD View log  •  )

Wikipedia is not a memorial DimaG (talk) 00:32, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Middle East-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 01:05, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 01:05, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 01:06, 15 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Delete nothing in gnews, which is surprising given the claims of the article. unless someone can find coverage in Arabic my vote stays. LibStar (talk) 05:46, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Arabic names are tricky. There is no standard method for transliterating them.  That you found no google hits under "Abdulaziz Saleh Sultan Sinan Al Dossary" does not mean that there are no WP:RS for him, even in English.  Perhaps you didn't notice, since they were busted, that the article already cited four WP:RS?  As I mentioned below, these reference document not the initial crash, but the inquiry three years later to confirm or refute that al Dossary survived, was picked up by Iranians, who had been secretly holding him over the intervening years.  Geo Swan (talk) 15:07, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep, possible merge, I am worried a merge to the BDF air force will cause WP:UNDUE - but the incident is already important enough to be mentioned there. Searching F-16+Dossary+Bahrain turns up dozens of results in the news...people need to stop just copy/pasting Wiki article titles into google ;) Sherurcij (speaker for the dead) 02:29, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
 * provide actual evidence of non trivial coverage please. LibStar (talk) 02:44, 16 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Change: Probably we could change this article to a page describing the incident, rather than the person involved in the incident. If thats a bad idea, then i would agree to Delete with DimaG's comment that Wikipedia is not a memorial. Regards to all. Rehman(+) 03:32, 16 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Keep -- Compare Colonel Al Dossary with GIs who served in Vietnam, who ended up being listed as missing in action. I am old enough to remember over a decade of heartfelt fringe belief that over a thousand US GIs who remained classified as missing in action actually remained captives in Vietnam.  A wikipedia articles about any of those thousand missing in action GIs that could only document that they were officially listed as missing would be an instance of WP:MEMORIAL.  But a wikipedia article that could cite articles from an WP:RS that documented the speculation that the GI remained in secret captivity would no longer lapse from WP:MEMORIAL.  Responsible WP:RS documented speculation that he was being secretly held in Iran.  Maybe this speculation has faded.  That is no justification of tossing the documentation of that speculation down the memory hole.  Geo Swan (talk) 04:36, 16 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Merge brief details to Military of Bahrain as regards the loss of an F-16. Good for keeping track of aircraft crashes, which helps indicate the pilot competency of an air force. Buckshot06 (talk) 09:47, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Looks like its already mentioned in Royal Bahraini Air Force... Rehman(+) 12:31, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Royal Bahraini Air Force mentions Al Dossary's loss 2003. It does not mention the 2006 reports that he was being held in secret extrajudicial detention in Iran.  So, could those of you who favor a merge please consider (1) The account that Al Dossary was being secretly held by Iran was covered by several (all?) the regions newspapers.  Should this portion of the historical record be covered in the wikipedia? (2) Is it appropriate for the speculation he had secretly been held in Iran to be covered in Military of Bahrain or Royal Bahraini Air Force?
 * In my experience moving this from its own article to a section of one of those two articles would serve as a perenial trigger for edit warring. The English language wikipedia is far larger than the Arabic wikipedia, or those of other languages.  Consequently we get internet savvy individuals, who aren't English speakers, checking the English language wikipedia to see what the Anglosphere says about their region.  Some of these people are nationalists first, and wikipedia contributors a very distant second.  They routinely delete referenced material they don't like WP:IDONTLIKEIT on the basis of "accuracy" -- in violation of WP:VER which says we base our articles on "verifiability, not truth".  The current neutrally written and properly referenced coverage of the speculation that he was in secret detention in Iran would serve as a perenial edit-war trigger.  Geo Swan (talk) 14:24, 16 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Delete seems a bit one-eventish to me, and the article doesn't provide evidence that this one event sparked a major cultural phenomenon (like, for example, the equally one-eventish Natalie Holloway). But like LibStar above, I may reconsider if sources can be dug up to demonstrate that this event had a bigger cultural impact in Bahrain. r ʨ anaɢ (talk) 15:32, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete: does not establish notability outside of the single event. In terms of biography, the subject doesn't fall into any of the categories that would make him notable under WP:MILPEOPLE (although this is not a guideline). Finally, I don't believe there is enough significant coverage to satisfy WP:GNG. — AustralianRupert (talk) 11:13, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.