Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Acid rap (0th nomination)

Acid rap was proposed for deletion. This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was to KEEP the article.

Acid rap
This is either vanity or non-notable ike9898 23:05, Nov 19, 2004 (UTC)


 * You are wrong on both counts. I've expanded the stub. [[en:RaD Man|RaD Man (talk)]] 09:56, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * Keep. This does not meet the criteria as a vanity page and it is perfectly notable. If people bother writing books about a thing, can we not take the hint? Dr Zen 00:16, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Fine, tell us what the books are, and that'll give us more information than the single sentence 207.78.119.226 gave us did about the notability of acid rap. -- Antaeus Feldspar 03:11, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * My apologies. Wrong about the book. I withdraw the comment. Still, it's notable. You can do your own research and make your own judgments. Weigh it in the scales if you like: on one side episode seven of the third series of the Simpsons or a joke Freeman Dyson once made and on the other acid rap. Esham, it turns out, has not made Wikipedia's notice, but he has had more than a dozen LPs. Now, he's not the best-selling artist in the world (his best score that I could find in a quick search on Amazon was about 18000th) but clearly he's made enough of a splash to make it worth his while to release records. We included Freeman Dyson's spaceship joke because it was mentioned on a couple of "scientific" websites. I don't suppose those guys are into acid rap. Dr Zen 03:50, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Expand or Delete. Esham the Unholy has no entry; who is he?  Perhaps merge and redirect to Rap, but I'm saying delete for now. --172.163.253.24 01:12, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Are you like the Hooded Claw of deletionists? All four of your edits are votes to delete!Dr Zen 02:06, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Hello, anonymous user 172.163.253.24, please log in next time so that your vote may be counted. [[en:RaD Man|RaD Man (talk)]] 09:36, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep Needs to be expanded, but definitely Wiki worthy. DCEdwards1966 03:07, Nov 20, 2004 (UTC)
 * 930 google hits. No vote. [[User:Meelar|Meelar (talk)]] 03:09, Nov 20, 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete: 930 hits is pretty low, IMO, for a rap anything.  The article here is a superstub.  Bob made X isn't much of an article.  It's like saying, "Wittgenstein made analytics."  With no explanation of what that means, it's a bit worse than a bad article.  If it is expanded and fleshed out, and if "acid rap" is explained, then I'll happily change my vote.  Note also that "acid rap" could hit Google a thousand ways without being about this.  E.g. De La Soul have been described as being acid rap and psychedelic rap.  Without Dr.Zen or others filling in the details (and I suppose he knows of books on the subject), then there's nothing to vote on.  Geogre 03:36, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Has been sufficiently improved and provides information. Now it's a stub.  Keep. Geogre 15:47, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Geogre, you were late to Google-school today, please return to class. [[en:RaD Man|RaD Man (talk)]] 10:14, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * You really should spare the sarcasm. Such ill-will breeds ill-will.  Geogre 15:47, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Being a stub is specifically not a criterion for deletion. VfD is not intended to be peer review. If a stub is expandable, which you seem to think it is, it passes the test. I urge you to change your vote on this basis.Dr Zen 03:50, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Being a substub, on the other hand, is a reason for deletion. I do not view this as a stub.  A stub is something which begins a discussion and sets the agenda.  A substub is a fragment that is so far beneath the full discussion as to leave nothing but a spot in the name registry.  My vote specifically is not because this is a substub, but because it is a substub that has zero content.  Further, as I indicate, another reason for my vote is that I regard it as not unverified, which would be enough to delete, but unverifiable, because "acid rap" is a nebulous term.  It's so nebulous that we would need the article to give us something to search with.  Therefore, if an expert, such as yourself, can fill in details enough to bring it up to stub level, I'll change my vote.  I am not an expert on rap past 1985.  Geogre 04:36, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * How can you say that it has zero content? Just from the first 14 words this article says something.  "Acid Rap is a genre of rap pioneered by Detroit rapper Esham Attica Smith".  And the article goes on beyond even that.  You seem to be exaggerating here, Geogre. anthony &#35686;&#21578; 16:13, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * You were looking at the revision, for which I changed my vote. Note that none of the people who post serial "keep notable" votes did the improvement.  Instead, it was someone new to the battles.  Instead of making the article better, all we got from the "keep notable" folks was taunting.  With a revision and verifiable material, I was happy to change my vote, as I always am.  The nominated version just said "Acid rRap is a genre of rap pioneered by Unholy Esham."  That wasn't enough for verification or for illustrating the topic.  Now, it is suitable.  Geogre 20:24, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Obviously there was enough for verification and illustrating the topic, because that's exactly what was done. And at the time you made the original comment the content was "Acid Rap was a style of Rap created by Detroit rapper, Esham the Unholy."  anthony &#35686;&#21578; 17:47, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * I also challenge your assertion that substubs don't belong in an encyclopedia. I've got an encyclopedia in front of me, and here's one entry: "Jurassic, the middle period of the Mesozoic era, lasting from about 195 to 140 million years ago." anthony &#35686;&#21578; 16:31, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Let me know which one that is, so that I can never order it for a school I work at. It sounds dreadful.  I would assume that it said, immediately afterward, "See Ages of Life" or something and does not pretend that that sentence is all that there is.  Geogre 20:24, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * No, there was no "see also". It was just a stub.  Real encyclopedias have stubs too.  Some information is better than none. anthony &#35686;&#21578; 17:43, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. Notable underground style. I'm not that into hip-hop, and I've heard of it. Mark as substub.   &mdash; Gwalla | Talk 04:46, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep, a reasonable encyclopedic article could be written here.  &mdash; siro  &chi;  o  06:46, Nov 20, 2004 (UTC)


 * Keep. Extremely notable.  Was any effort to research made before nominating this article for VfD, and are you by chance related to Wyllium?  Lets just say this is most certainly noteworthy, shouldn't have been VfD'd and leave it at that. [[en:RaD Man|RaD Man (talk)]] 09:32, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Could you try, possibly try, to concentrate on the merits of the article and not on the prejudices you have about other editors? I mean, just possibly?  I know it's so much more convenient to make personal attacks than to actually answer concerns that have been brought up, but it's also uncivil. -- Antaeus Feldspar 00:28, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Perhaps he feels the concerns are entirely spurious but isn't very good at expressing himself? Stubs are a valuable part of Wikipedia, and its expandability is evident in its having been expanded! Saying "if you don't expand it yourself you can't say it's expandable" is not a million miles short of trolling. I agree that Radman could work harder not to take the bait, but I'd like to see you work to cool down both sides.Dr Zen 06:42, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * KeepI have looked up All Music Guide which doesn't have "acid rap" listed as a genre. However, on its article on Esham, it notes his role as founder of the genre and cites his influence on other Detroit area acts such as the Insane Clown Posse and Kid Rock. 1 About.com's rap and hip hop pages lists acid rap as a sub-genre with Esham (the unholy) listed as the originator and with the Insane Clown Posse and D12 listed as practitioners.2 As they are notable artists, I would support keeping this article and amending the article in the next 24 hours. Capitalistroadster 10:49, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. I was on the fence until reading this information by Capitalistroadster.  Thanks for doing the research so I don't have to. anthony &#35686;&#21578; 13:28, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete or merge/redir to Esham, who coined the neologism for his music, but I couldn't find any reference to any other artist claiming to produce "acid rap", or merge/redir to Horrorcore, as that seems to be what everyone but Esham calls it. Niteowlneils 22:51, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * I abstained previously. I am changing that abstention to Keep, because the article has been improved from the single-sentence substub it was (and yes, there's a reason those invite VfDs) and because my Google search indicates that it's a term prominent enough for Eminem to rap against it.  There seems to be some dispute about what the boundaries of the genre are, and I'd like to see more discussion of that in the article, but it doesn't seem to be a single-artist genre, like "Juggalo rap".  -- Antaeus Feldspar 00:28, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete, merge into Esham or Horrorcore. 'Acid Rap' doesn't seem to be a common term. --fvw* 05:58, 2004 Nov 21 (UTC)
 * Keep. No way it would be VfD'ed in present form. Could use more explanation of Eminem's relationship with acid rap. Samaritan 09:28, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * I nominated this article but I'm now convinced it's a valid subject. When I nominated, it seemed to me that Acid Rap was just a name this guy made up for his personal style.  One artist does not make a genre. Obviously, I was mistaken. Keep  ike9898 15:55, Nov 22, 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep, reasonably notable. [[User:GRider|GRider\talk]] 17:21, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. Mark Richards 17:28, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. Term seems reasonably well established, even if not widespread, likely to be of interest to anyone for whom this general sort of thing is of interest. No longer a substub by any means. -- Jmabel | Talk 08:19, Nov 23, 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. For reasons stated by others that vote keep. --Dittaeva 20:48, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. Seems notable. Potentially good article. - Ta bu shi da yu 03:36, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like other '/delete' pages is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion or on the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.