Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Adam Cooley


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. The "keep" and "delete" sides have both put up good arguments which in my view cancel each other out; hence there doesn't appear to be a consensus for either. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont)  17:50, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

Adam Cooley

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Sources for this artist are mostly glancing mentions and non-independent items. I could not actually find or verify a single independent source online, although at least one is mentioned in the article. While autobiography may not be a deletion rationale in itself, it's worth noting that one SPA has edited the page for two years, and all the images uploaded, including a self-portrait, have been under the account "Adam Cooley". In any case, it's GNG Fail for lack of independent RS in multiple sources that cover the subject in-depth. ThatMontrealIP (talk) 12:15, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of New York-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 12:23, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Artists-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 12:23, 3 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete - this self-promotional, possibly autobiographical article created by an SPA in on a non-notable artist who has shown in galleries that have no historical or internet credibility, with one exception, the Tokyo Met Museum. However a search of the museum's collection does not show the artist is represented. Does not meet notability standards nor warrant an encyclopedia article. Netherzone (talk) 00:56, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Does not meet WP:ARTIST and citations don't check out. Cannot find anything when I do newspaper searches. Netherzone (talk) 13:04, 16 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Keep - it seems to me that the sources are admissible and objective. The problem is that the sources come from Japan and are not known or accessible as readily to those outside of Japan. For example, ‘Gekkan Bijutsu’ is a well respected art magazine in Japan that has been in existence since 1975. It is a well respected and historically relevant Japanese art magazine that is still being published. The artist in question lives and works in Japan and by all accounts seems to be thriving well in that market. There are other very famous artists in the Japanese market who never get covered in the west. Wikipedia allows people to access more than just the uber-famous and it seems very useful for comparative studies or just general knowledge to be able find references to people, events and things that don’t get exposure in the west. The question comes down to how can references and citations that have significant relevance for one part of the world be proportionately represented in another part of the world. The galleries in Japan that are located in the Hankyu Department stores and Daimaru Department stores are considered highly prestigious venues for artists to exhibit. The most successful artists in Japan exhibit there. Again the artist in question has exhibited in both and this is referenced in the aforementioned magazine ‘Gekkan Bijutsu’ the problem seems to be the fact that the relative value of exhibiting in a Department store is not proportionately represented and the historical relevance and prestige of the source -the magazine- is also not proportionately valued.KevinJardine (talk) 09:03, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Note to closing admin above editor KevinJardine has made 300 or so edits over 3 years, ONLY to the Adam Cooley article. It's either the article subject or his mom. Clear WP:DUCK. ThatMontrealIP (talk) 13:36, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete Even if ‘Gekkan Bijutsu’ or these Department stores were significant, that alone isn't enough. --Theredproject (talk) 01:58, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

I choose this particular artist because he is originally from New York and it was easier to find materials and references about him in English. This artist is well established in the Japanese market which I think is quite remarkable. I researched his work, called newspapers and magazines and any other sources I could find to meet the acceptable guidelines for this article. I am preparing to document a few of the most famous artists working in Japan who are valued highly for Japanese art collectors. Finding, translating and using certain Japanese publications is a difficult task and I am not paid to write Wikipedia articles nor do I gain anything from doing so. I simply see gaps with regards to information on the real Japanese art market and I’d like to play a part filling in those gaps. I have made 300 or so edits to only one article because I am the one who started the article. Doesn't it make sense that I would keep improving it? We all know how hard it is to find references that meet all of the proper citation guidelines. I am improving the article and thanks to intelligent critiques I am able to improve the integrity of my writing. However, I’m concerned in this case about the integrity of the critique. The language is openly malicious and meant to be provocative. Presuming I am the artist or the artist’s mother is unfair and not a sound argument towards the deletion of the article. A presumption is an opinion not an argument. In addition to this, a casual search finds biographical articles with less than five citations yet the article in question has significantly more and from diverse sources -where is the line to be drawn?KevinJardine (talk) 08:12, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
 * To be fair I am neither the subject nor related to the subject in any way. I work in the art industry in Japan as a translator and have nothing to do with selling or promotion. My goal is to document this active art market. Examples of this are the groups Hakujitsu-kai and Nitten . Hakujitsu-kai is a painter’s guild in Japan where many of the top artists are or have been members but you'd be hard pressed to find their names or the group itself in any western media or websites. There is virtually no information about them to English speakers. It’s a shame because this is where the Japanese art market is thriving; not only in the pop art of Takashi Murakami or Yayoi Kusama. Wikipedia is able to create a truly detailed network of macro-relations to micro-relations and this is my motivation for writing.
 * It's quite clear who you are. You created the article and added multiple images of Adam Cooley. You uploaded over a dozen images, which were taken down due to copyright concerns. But then, miracle of miracles, Adam Cooley (even though you're appparently "neither the subject nor related to the subject in any way") somehow found out about your image upload problem and sent information to OTRS to have the image permissions fixed! You worked only on this article for over two years. We have a category for this kind of activity, and it is called WP:DUCK. Please spare us the baloney.  ThatMontrealIP (talk) 08:16, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Split votes with heavy analysis performed on both sides. If anyone strongly feels like I should reverse this, I will, but looks to me as if there's a lot that needs to be debated.
 * Keep - Appears to be covered by a feature in Kansai Time Out (a former mainstream magazine in Japan), and also is discussed in the book Japanland: A Year in Search of Wa. Multiple reliable sources (as in more than one) satisfies the GNG. Barely. EnPassant (talk) 21:58, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Redditaddict69 (talk) (contribs)  18:07, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Redditaddict, I don't see a split, as KevinJardine is obviously the article subject-- that could be confirmed via OTRS. Wihtout his !vote it was 3 deletes one keep.ThatMontrealIP (talk) 23:15, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I strongly believe in the integrity of wikipedia and my own contributions to it. This accusation is categorically untrue. I am not the subject of this article. Again ThatMontrealIP's accusation is nothing more than a hunch. I'm sure ThatMontreal is a very good editor and I welcome constructive critiques but please stop implying that intuitions are facts.KevinJardine (talk) 10:02, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
 * ThatMontrealIP (and the various IPs they used before finally creating an account) has an extensive history of AfD well-poisoning by accusing those who disagree with them of direct COI, or being spammers, or in your case, even the subject himself "or his mom". ThatMontrealIP needs to start recognizing WP:AGF, WP:NPA, and WP:Civility not a week from now, not tomorrow, but now. EnPassant (talk) 21:11, 12 November 2018 (UTC)
 * GigglesnortHotel! Good to see you again. ThatMontrealIP (talk) 06:34, 16 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Keep This seems to satisfy the multiple independent reliable sources requirement - and they are spread over a period of 20 years, so sustained as well. RebeccaGreen (talk) 18:48, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep The sourcing appears solid enough to satisfy WP:GNG. I found the arguments of KevinJardine persuasive despite the likely COI. Curiocurio (talk) 01:14, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep Exhibition in Tokyo Metropolitan Museum of Art covers WP:ARTIST as well as other sources. Arthistorian1977 (talk) 12:33, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment: Mr. Cooley's identity as User:Aciam888 has been verified: OTRS ticket#2017082510002164. This obviously doesn't rule out some other COI with . I will note, for whatever it is worth, that Aciam888 in an IRC help chat (control of the account verified by a requested edit) denies a connection: The only contact I have had from him was when he contatced me through my website asking for permission to use some of my images for an article he wanted to write, i sent my standard press kit and a few weeks later he messaged me that I would have to upload the images to wiki. This does not weigh in on his notability but given the suspicions raised in this case is posted as as background. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 06:49, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
 * FWIW, all of the images in the current article were uploaded to Wikimedia Commons by Aciam888 (or, in other words, Adam Cooley), in February 2017, six months before the OTRS ticket.ThatMontrealIP (talk) 08:25, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   12:00, 18 Novemeber 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete, promo, no sigcov. Szzuk (talrg k) 13:02, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete - Kansai Timeout is the only thing that's even possibly an independent RS making more than a glancing reference here (though even that is dubious, given that Timeout is a travel/events mag, not an Arts publication), but by one article by itself is not enough to show significant coverage. The Japanland book mentions his name exactly twice but purely as a friend of the author (i.e., it's not telling you that he's notable for anything or covering him per se) - it doesn't even mention that he's an artist (just says he used to do mime). Everything else is either not independent (i.e., the websites of the galleries showing the exhibits), not an RS, or not giving any more than a glancing reference. And yeah, I also think this may be self-promo. FOARP (talk) 16:38, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you for adding the link to the google book preview but it is only a preview. He appears in three chapters not just the one chapter (chapter 16) listed. Since it is just the book preview it doesn't show all of the chapters of the book, of course, and if you scroll down a bit further it explains that "Some pages have been omitted from the book preview". And as for the documentary, half is his performance art piece on the street and the other half shows his sculptures, masks and paintings.
 * I have found a number of artists listed on Wikipedia with zero references (I will not name them here as it would be in bad taste) but here we are talking about an artist who has plenty of diverse references that span 20 years and continue up to the present. Clearly the article has shown his notability and the question of COI has also been clarified and cleared. Of the all the reliable sources that I have personally sought and verified there are at least two newspaper articles, two magazine features, one book, one television documentary and that's to name only a few. I'd appreciate if other editors were trying to help me become a better editor but I don't feel that is what's happening. I am not an experienced editor. I am still painstakingly learning the ropes but I have found lots of material on this artist and keep finding more. I write about what I know. I know this industry and I know that the artist in question has proved his worth and continues to do so.KevinJardine (talk) 11:50, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
 * TimeOut is not an art journal, it is a weekly magazine for "things to do" in a given city. Netherzone (talk) 16:45, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Kansai Time Out was a monthly magazine that did a lot more than inform about “things to do”. It had every single arts-related cultural listing in the Kansai region and very good articles about the arts which seems to makes good sense for a magazine that is listing the most relevant cultural events of the time. On top of this, the question of it being an art journal or not is completely derailing the conversation and insignificant. The question is whether the source is a reliable one; not whether it is a high brow art journal -bottom line it is a reliable source.
 * For a fair assessment read the following Japan Times article:Kansai Time Out: 30 Years without a BreatherKevinJardine (talk) 01:32, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Not to be too blunt, KevinJardine, but if you wanted to get better as an editor, editing more than one article during the years you've been on this site might have been a good way to go. Other artists articles might also be badly sourced - in which case they should be improved, or if this is not possible, deleted - but this has no bearing on the notability of this article (see WP:WAX). Since you apparently have a copy of Japanland: A Year in Search of Wa to hand, can you tell us in which chapters, on which pages, he appears, and whether the content goes beyond that visible in the copy on Google Books? EDIT and whilst we're at it, since the author of that book is a friend of Cooley's, could it ever be considered an independent, reliable source about him? FOARP (talk) 21:01, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
 * The answer to you're question is a resounding "Yes, it is a reliable source".
 * She wrote a book which featured the artist because she saw an article about him in a magazine and searched him out for the purpose of writing about him. This is in the preview! How do you forget to mention that? You keep misreading details, conveniently not giving the whole picture and creating misleading arguments.
 * The author was writing a book on Japan, she saw an article about the artist and tracked him down in order to feature him in the book and PBS television documentary. They were total strangers and she found out about him via a magazine article -a clear secondary source WP:BASIC. By your logic any interviewer in any situation has a conflict of interest just by being in the same room as the interviewee! This is a logical absurdity.KevinJardine (talk) 02:22, 23 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Question Am I missing the source, or do we have a WP:RS that verifies the exhibition in Tokyo Metropolitan Museum of Art. I looked, but couldn't verify, beyond his bio on his own website. --Theredproject (talk) 16:21, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Good point. There are actualy three claims related to the Tokyo Metropolitan Museum of Art: a) that he exhibited there in 1999 (sourced by non-rs interview in TimeOut magazine), b)that he exhibited there in 2001 (no source) and c) that they acquired two works for their permanent collection. The last is strange, because when I go to their website and click "collection" they have only about 40 works in their collection, and they collect only sculpture and calligraphy. I checked the English and the Japanese page, no paintings in the collection. It is also worth noting that sources 8-12 are for Gallery Chayamachi, a for-hire gallery space. Scroll down this link for the prices in yen. If you follow the sources in the article for Gallery Chyamachi, you will see that all of the Chayamachi sources are for the six day "solo" exhibitions that run Thursday to the following Tuesday (for the fee of $1700USD/ 200,000 yen stated in the above rentals link). Kansai ArtBeat says of Gallery Chayamachi: "...this rental gallery located near Umeda emphasizes that each exhibition is a work of art in itself and the product of mutual understanding between them and the artist." Do we even allow listings of shows in rental galleries? It's not a great precedent to include pay-to-play exhibitions in an article, nor is it to use these as sources of notability. ThatMontrealIP (talk) 01:54, 21 November 2018 (UTC)


 * It is also worth noting that yes, we do allow such things. Not everything in an article is necessarily meant to show notability of the subject but rather simply listed as relevant support. WP:BASICKevinJardine (talk) 03:06, 23 November 2018 (UTC)
 * However, sourcing should be independent of the subject. If it was pay-for-play then it isn't independent. FOARP (talk) 08:24, 23 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Actually, the way the art world works in the west is not the same as in the east. Art work is often priced by the size, there are strict hierarchies in the art world, and the rental gallery system is standard practice for the majority of galleries. Japan is one of those places where land costs and rents are so high that the majority of non-rental galleries don’t last. Gallery Chayamachi was one of the oldest galleries in the city, it was a rental gallery but rental galleries here still have standards; money alone doesn’t get you in. If you want to understand more about the rental gallery system in Japan here's a great article on the subject by the Japan Times: Japan’s unique “rental gallery” system KevinJardine (talk) 14:11, 23 November 2018 (UTC)
 * What about ducks, are they the same all over the world?ThatMontrealIP (talk) 14:41, 23 November 2018 (UTC)

I am an experienced Wikipedian. I will do online research and rewrite the content in encyclopedic tone, format the draft according to Wikipedia guidelines and get it approved, I will forward the final draft for you to review before submitting. Please respond for more details. Regards, Tamsin I dont want this to come off as sounding rude, but i dont really care about whether i am listed in a wiki article or not. I seldom use a computer for more than checking email, booking plane tickets, or corresponding with friends...and youtube of course. I am most offended though that my name has been dragged though the mud, my character has been personally attacked. Claiming that i wrote an autobiography about myself is libelous, and making comments about my mother is unforgivable and just really rude and insensitive. I do know and I am friends with her Karin Muller, but I did not know her until after she met me for my first interview on the first day of filming me for her documentary and we became friends much later on. It offends me that you would suggest that seasoned extremely experienced documentarian/ writer like herself would not be a reliable source. This whole idea that everything is "fake news" is tiring. I hope you understand that people are more than text on a page, I did not ask to be on wiki and I definitely dont think I deserve to have my character defamed. If you have any questions or if you dont believe i am how i say i am, you can contact me directly through my email, or though facebook video chat.Aciam888 (talk) 07:20, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment:Hi. i am not very good at things technological, so please bear with me if i am not correct in my post here. I am Adam Cooley, the artist that this article appears to be about. I am not voting for this wiki article either way, but after speaking with another wiki administrator yesterday they suggested that I make a comment here as well. I am Adam Cooley,the artist the article is about. I have never written an autobiography for wiki. I have never written anything on wiki before today, nor have i edited on wiki before today. I have never met KevinJardine, Toniballioni, or any other person who i knew was a wiki writer. I have been contacted by both KevinJardine and Toniballioni though, first i was contacted by KevinJardine (i believe) through my websites contact email, who asked for permission to use images from my website for an article. I sent my press kit and a few weeks later I was contacted again and asked to add pictures to wiki giving permission for usage. I was then later contacted by Toniballioni who wanted me to prove I was actually the artist Adam Cooley, which i did. most recently I got a notice in my email that photos had been deleted from wiki, so it was the first time to notice the comments about me. I have never asked to be written about, either here in wiki or any magazine, newspaper, or book. i also have never paid for any articles in wiki or any other newspaper, magazine, newspaper, or book. i have though received numerous "offers" when the article was apparently up for deletion or some similar times directly to my email, like this one:
 * This is all getting really fishy and I think and SPI is in order. The real Adam Cooley has a dedicated web site, a very active Instagram account with 358 posts and a Twitter account with 1,258 posts.ThatMontrealIP (talk) 07:34, 21 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Comment:Hi again, yes, I am still Adam Cooley, the real Adam Cooley. i still never written an autobiograghy. I believe it will be very easy to prove I am who I say I am, I am on facebook, instagram, i dont read twitter but yes it is hooked up to my facebook. I am also the same Adam Cooley who has been in the book Japanland, Gekkan Bijutsu,the KTO, Maru, the yomiyuri, the japan times, japanese tv five or six times, and Gekkan gallery (coming out Dec 1st) so my picture is out there and i will be easy to identify after a few seconds of video chatting. I have no problem chatting via, facebook, Line, video chats are fine as well. I am extremely down to earth to a fault, so please feel free to reach out and contact me if you have any doubt as to who i am. I was told not to post my email address here but it is easy to find it on my website. if anyone wants to speak with me i will have time exactly 5 hours or so from now. Aciam888 (talk) 08:21, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
 * This whole thing is just a weird sideshow and ultimately has no bearing on whether or not this page should be deleted. The real issue is showing significant coverage in independent, reliable sources. The independence of the "Japanland" book is questionable, the Timeout magazine article is questionable as an RS for art and anyway a single article is not enough to substantiate notability, and all the other sources appear not to be independent/reliable sources. Mr. Cooley may be offended by us questioning whether the sources needed exist, but we have been unable to find them and if they do not exist then this article should be deleted. As an experienced Wikipedian, Mr. Cooley should understand this already. He should also be familiar with WP:DUCK and WP:PROMO. FOARP (talk) 08:28, 21 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Comment:What are you talking about FOARP? I am not the writer of the article. I have not written in wiki ever until today. lets try to do this together. I am the artist the article is about. I did not solicit the article. I did not write the article. I dont care if the article is deleted or not, i only care about the libelous comments. These are the comments i find defamatory : 1) claiming I wrote or edited the article.  2) insults about my mother writing the article. and now 3) Claiming i am experienced wikipedian. It think you are getting me confused with the person who actually wrote the article and the person who emailed me wanting to fix "my" (meaning the article about me, Adam Cooley) article that was up for deletion. I am not going to keep up bantering with you. I would ask whoever is moderating this to please report this, as i feel I have been the subject of both libel and defamation. Aciam888 (talk) 09:23, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi Adam, your comment above said "I am an experienced Wikipedian", it wasn't clear from the formatting that you were quoting someone else, typically quotation marks and/or spacing are used for that, otherwise it looks like you who is making the statement. Even if you are not an experienced Wikipedian, you now have a chance to familiarise yourself with WP:DUCK and WP:PROMO. As for defamation, nothing written here is defamatory. Probably the best way for the subject of an article to get involved in its production is to take a hands-off approach since otherwise we end up with obvious COI problems.
 * And again, pretty much everything in what you've just said has no bearing at all on whether this page should be deleted or not, which comes down to the reliability and/or independence of the sourcing. FOARP (talk) 12:36, 21 November 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.