Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Adam Kadmon (character)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. No indication of persistent, in-depth coverage in independent, reliable sources. Two !votes from quacking sockpuppets discounted. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:28, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
 * (Note that, after concerns on my talk page, the article was recreated and speedily nominated for deletion here so that a clearer consensus could be determined). — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:02, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Adam Kadmon (character)

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Completing nomination for an IP editor, who posted the below rationale at WT:AFD. On the merits, I have no opinion. UltraExactZZ Said~ Did 12:11, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

The page is related to a minor Italian television character (from the program "Mistero" / Italia1 http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mistero_(programma_televisivo) ). I think that the wiki page was created only for self-promotional purpose to create a "background" to the character by producers of the show. The page have no international encyclopedic relevance so I think it should be removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.229.51.18 (talk) 10:34, 21 August 2013‎ (UTC)

thanks Ultraexactzz The same page was deleted on italian wiki for the same reason: http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Kadmon_(character) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.229.51.18 (talk) 14:26, 21 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Italy-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 14:28, 21 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 14:29, 21 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 14:29, 21 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Comment. The article in its current form is highly promotional in tone and hard to understand.  However, there is coverage of the subject: "How Adam Kadmon Made the Leap From The Kabbalah to Italian Television", The Forward, April 21, 2013; a mention in a 2013 New York Times article ; and a bunch of stuff in Italian that shows up in GNews, in addition to the few currently included in the article.--Arxiloxos (talk) 19:44, 21 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: We have another article (not well sourced) called Le teorie di Adam Kadmon. --Arxiloxos (talk) 19:49, 21 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep: Referencing is not perfect, but pretty good. In my opinion the references need to be enhanced especially in the Character biography part, where refs should be put inline where needed, and not all at the end. The text would need to be formatted better. It doesn't look beautiful. But the fact that does not look beautiful or that the references are there, but not right in place, does not mean that the article should not be there. This character is well notable and contains enough secondary and tertiary independed sources that confirm it. I also agree that the article needs to be more neutralized and enhanced with regards to the grammar and syntax. Thanks. -- ★ Pikks ★  MsG  11:59, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Article edited and now surely meets WP:WAF and WP:GNG and WP:BIO, however it still needs to be edited by WP:COPYEDITORS. It's already in the waiting list. -- ★ Pikks ★  MsG  20:54, 25 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Delete: the biography is still written in "in character universe", remember that we talk about a fictional character not a real person. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.229.51.18 (talk • contribs)


 * First of all he is not a fictional character. He is an anonymous character. Second, as far as a fictional character meets the WP:GNG and in particular WP:BIO and is considered notable, it can have an page in Wiki as well as other ((Category:Lists of fictional characters|fictional characters (click here)) to whom the Wikipedia Community dedicated a whole project WP:WikiProject_Fictional_characters. Once again Adam Kadmon is an anonymous writer, not fictional. Please note the difference between a real person which is Anonymous and a fictional character. Third you had to write below the orange line. And when you write, please always put a signature and always mention facts, and avoid WP:OR. Thanks--  ★ Pikks ★  MsG  12:42, 3 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Paranormal-related deletion discussions. Cavarrone  18:25, 23 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, L Faraone  23:54, 28 August 2013 (UTC)



I see two problem, the character is  fictional ( see discussion on Italian wiki http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Bar/Discussioni/Adam_Kadmon )is a team of authors who shows the ideas through the character, second it has a  little relevance on Italian television scene, i don't think that this page on English wiki was relevant. the Italian page http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Kadmon_(personaggio_televisivo) is enough.2.225.149.59 (talk) 20:43, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your opinion. First - whether the character is fictional or TV character it is decided by the article itself, its content and the sources, not by other authors from other wikis. Second. Whether it has or not relevance on Italian TV is decided by WP:GNG and in particular WP:BIO, not by Original Researc WP:OR, so please keep a WP:POV. When you say "the Italian page is enough" and when you use arguments like "in other wiki..." you are writing in complete disagreement with WP:OTHERLANGS. Other wikis and personal opinions should NOT be taken into consideration in AfD discussions. Third - the Italia AfD discussion was closed and the Article about Adam Kadmon was restored as "personaggio_televisivo" (eng. TV character), not fictional. So what you stated above is false. Thanks. -- ★ Pikks ★  MsG  21:12, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

The article is full of self reference to character blog, page from the television channel who host the character (mistero,tgcom24,mediaset,italia1)and promotional article for books. many assertions are totally nonsense: " Adam Kadmon is the main character and source of information regarding the Conspiracy and the NWO in the Italian National TV." Nope he talk in one tv program (mistero) in one national channel (italia1) "igh-skilled in martial arts and t'ai chi ch'uan, Adam Kadmon is said to possess the ethics of a superhero such as not harming innocents and the tenacity of a soldier of Special Forces." self promotional reference / in-character universe biography 2.225.149.59 (talk) 21:53, 7 September 2013 (UTC)
 * The fact that there are blogs as sources this is ok as long as they are confirmed with other primari/secondary or maybe tertiary sources. All the information that had sources only coming from blogs has been removed from the article. Now all the info that is in the article has primary, secondary and tertiary sources. Before commenting on the source type, please read the rules. The fact that he appears only in 1 channel this is wrong and false. If you read the article you can see that he appears on TV, in the shops his DVDs are being sold, there are magazines in book stores about him or having articles about him, he was for many years a speaker in the biggest radio in Italy. So please say the true here, as no original research is permitted. In any case, there should be some sentence that are unbiased, the article would have to be tagged as CAT:PROMO so that a knowledgeable editor will edit it and make it fully unbiased according to WP:NPOV. If we were to remove all the articles that contain some "promotional tone" text, according to your opinion we would have to remove ~18.000 articles - all are listed here CAT:PROMO. Please be reasonable. --  ★ Pikks ★  MsG  07:50, 8 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:27, 8 September 2013 (UTC)



Only a note about "DVD, magazine and book", are all from the same group of tv channel, Fininvest: Piemme is a subsidiary of Modadori (Mediaset Group), DVD and the Magazine was released by Fivestore a merchandising group hold by Mediaset. On Radio105 the character was play by the Italian dubber Christian Iansante. 2.225.149.59 (talk) 23:21, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Notability is decided by other criteria, not from who is the person, who is dubbing the person, etc. For this reason please read WP:GNG and WP:BIO. -- ★ Pikks ★  MsG  07:20, 10 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Keep: After going through the text and references I can see it meets the Notability Guidelines for living people. It definitely should be kept. After this discussion closes I suggest to add a note for language & grammar copyediting. --84.221.143.251 (talk) 12:38, 10 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Keep: I too after going through the text and references this article meets the Notability Guidelines for living people. It definitely should be kept 109.55.226.170 (talk) 15:53, 11 September 2013 (UTC) Sylar
 * Delete This article is a horrible mis-mash of fiction and reality. We should clearly indicate if an article is about a real person or a fictional one. It is not real clear what this article is. However the subject is not notable enough to merit an article either way.John Pack Lambert (talk) 02:54, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your contribution. Before contributing in AfD, please read the article and understand what you are talking about. Please understand the difference between a real person that writes text and appears in TV with an actors'voice and image, and a Character_(arts) - the difference is huge and important to know. Second, in AfD discussion sentences like the subject is not notable enough must be avoided (read WP:Not notable) according to the rules! Regards -- ★ Pikks ★  MsG  10:10, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I lean toward thinking this subject is marginally notable and some sort of article may be appropriate, but I agree with John Pack Lambert that the current version of the article is extremely confusing and does not adequately define the subject. If we do keep the article, I would suggest cutting it drastically. --Arxiloxos (talk) 14:09, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your suggestions. I would go for a Copy Edit template. So far the article is now awaiting a copyeditor here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Guild_of_Copy_Editors/Requests -- ★ Pikks ★  MsG  14:27, 16 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Incredibly strong delete Pikks fails to understand that notability for articles on en.wiki is extremely more sifficult than on others. The sockpuppet !votes above sealed the deal for me.  If I was logged into my admin account right now, I would have closed this as delete and salt myself  ES  &#38;L  19:13, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I simply read the WP:GNG and WP:BIO. These are the rules that must be met for living people. Please read the rules. If you think that some rule is not met, please specify. But please, let's try to avoid personal opinions. You may like the character, you may not, you may agree with the character theories or not. But what makes an article notable or not are the Guidelines for biographies of living people. Regards -- ★ Pikks ★  MsG  19:44, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
 * You need to read them correctly. My comment above is based on my knowledge of said policies as an admin and longstanding editor.  ES  &#38;L  00:49, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
 * From what you wrote, you do not know the rules. Please read the AfD rule. Here is a quote The debate is not a vote; please make recommendations on the course of action to be taken, sustained by arguments.. You still didn't give any arguments. You just said to delete it. And delete is not an argument (wikilinked so you can read what an argument is). -- ★ Pikks ★  MsG  07:21, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.