Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Adams Crossroads, Delaware


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. Mark Arsten (talk) 11:54, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Adams Crossroads, Delaware

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Non-notable place incorrectly listed as an unincorporated community, but actually just a literal crossroads where two roads cross. Fails to meet notability by not having coverage in multiple, independent reliable sources. Only references given are a street map and GNIS, which has been decided time and again does not meet notability on its own, nor does the inclusion of the myriad of non-reliable sources that rely solely on GNIS information. Superman7515 (talk) 02:53, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Delaware-related deletion discussions. Northamerica1000(talk) 03:12, 18 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Speedy delete per nom; WP:GNG definitely applies. How this merits inclusion is beyond me.  —Theodore! (talk) (contribs) 04:36, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep Per the five pillars, Wikipedia is a gazetteer, and all populated places are considered worthy of articles as part of that function; this notion has been upheld in countless AfDs in the past. The GNIS and the official Delaware transportation map claim that this is a populated place, not just a place where two roads meet, and I'm inclined to believe two reliable sources over the nominator on that point. TheCatalyst31 Reaction•Creation 09:44, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
 * GNIS has been upheld countless times to not establish notability on its own. The map supplied does not establish it as a populated place. The title of the map is "Delaware Scenic and Historical Highways" and shows every road name and crossroads on there. The appendix lists "Index of Cities, Towns, and Places" so while it may be a "place" nothing on the map says that it is a populated place, and certainly not an unincorporated community, as it is listed. Even if we were to make that jump, simply having a name and people living there does not qualify an article to be kept, see the myriad of articles on trailer parks that have been deleted or the previous article on Abbotts Mill[] that was forced to change from an unincorporated community article. While this isn't a mobile home park, it is also not a historic mill or other such NRHP site worth of inclusion, and it is well established that GNIS does not in itself meet the guidelines for setting an areas notability and that multiple reliable sources are still needed for these "places" to meet notability standards. Superman7515 (talk) 14:42, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Aside from trailer parks, which are a special case, the GNIS is generally considered to establish notability on its own, contrary to what you're suggesting. See Articles for deletion/Fairview, Harford County, Maryland, Articles for deletion/Snapfinger, Georgia, Articles for deletion/Good Intent, Pennsylvania, Articles for deletion/Andrews Manor, Maryland, Articles for deletion/Orestimba, California, and Articles for deletion/South Woodstock, Vermont for some examples; the only example to the contrary I could find was Abbotts Mill, which was a historic site and therefore a special case. TheCatalyst31 Reaction•Creation 20:52, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Examples given: Articles for deletion/Fairview, Harford County, Maryland = makes no mention whatsoever of GNIS, let alone using that as the benchmark to set notability. Articles for deletion/Snapfinger, Georgia = again, no mention of GNIS, or using GNIS to establish notability. Articles for deletion/Good Intent, Pennsylvania = first mention of GNIS, however, it still needed additional reliable sources to establish it's existence and notability, GNIS alone was not good enough. Articles for deletion/Andrews Manor, Maryland = is a population center with reliable sources, such as the state of Maryland, calling it a planned community, and does not rely on GNIS as its sole source to establish notability. Articles for deletion/Orestimba, California = A populated places with numerous reliable and independent sources, for example a a high school, where again GNIS alone was not enough to establish notability. Articles for deletion/South Woodstock, Vermont = was shown to be a distinct population center with sources such as an NRHP link, a post office, etc. None of the examples given was able to establish notability based solely on GNIS and those unreliable sources, such as Hometown Locator etc, that use GNIS as their source. Without any historical evidence of it being a population center, no reliable sources currently establishing it as meeting notability, and WP:ENN as well as WP:NRVE, the article should be deleted. It is simply the crossroads of a road that takes you to the unincorporated community of Adams and the road that takes you to the town of Bridgeville. Superman7515 (talk) 21:36, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
 * The first two examples are to this day only cited to the GNIS, and the second discussion definitely does mention the GNIS. For the rest, the other sources were usually found during the AfD by people trying to improve the article, and shouldn't be taken as evidence that the place would have gotten deleted in the absence of those sources. Besides, all of them use the argument that verified populated places are notable, and when the GNIS is the only source doing the verifying, that's the same as saying that a GNIS entry is sufficient for notability. Adams Crossroads doesn't only rely on a GNIS entry, either - it also has the highway map, which indicates that it's a populated place (which is what a category of "Cities, Towns and Places" means). Satellite images of the area show a cluster of buildings at the place, so it appears to still be a population center. I still haven't seen any evidence that this is only a crossroads, as you claim. TheCatalyst31 Reaction•Creation 21:57, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep per The Catalyst31 comments. Wikipedia is a gazetteer. Thank you-RFD (talk) 22:50, 18 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Delete Saying "Wikipedia is a gazetteer" does not magically make every barren place where roads intersect a "community" or an "inhabited place" which needs to have an entry in encyclopedias. Having some anonymous person create a GNIS entry based on unknown references or standards does not confer some inherent notability on a mere intersection of latitude and longitude. Fails WP:N. Edison (talk) 23:40, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Just for the record, the GNIS listing does have a reference for where they got the place name; it's from a USGS topographic map, which it says is the Hickman map elsewhere in the listing. I took a look at the Hickman topographic map, and Adams Crossroads is marked. And since the USGS is an agency of the federal government, and the GNIS is run by the USGS, I'd say it's a lot more reliable than "some anonymous person". TheCatalyst31 Reaction•Creation 00:16, 20 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Delete I'll disclose that I was invited to participate in the discussion. In looking at Google maps, I see that there are a few houses around the crossroads, where the Adamsville Highway intersects Seashore Drive in Sussex County, with no sign for "Adams Crossroads, Delaware". There's no indication that it is, or ever was, a "community". This is one of thousands of mass-produced stubs that are created by different users and then dropped and never revisited. One term for these is "kittens". If it were in a published book, then I could accept the gazetteer argument. To me, though, this is squarely under WP:NOT-- "Wikipedia is not a directory of everything that exists in the world or has existed." Mandsford 18:22, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep per WP:NPLACE. It's labeled as a settlement on the USGS topographical map. It's specifically named as a settlement in this publication of the USGS. It's listed in this book. Deor (talk) 18:37, 21 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Comment WP:NPLACE says that cities and villages are generally kept, neither of those apply here nor is anyone claiming it does. Larger neighborhoods are usually kept, but this would not fit as the supposed location of this community is the intersection of Seashore Highway and Adamsville Road, where there are only two houses in the immediate location and 7 houses/farms within 1 mile. And finally smaller suburbs are generally merged, but this isn't even a suburb since you're several miles from the nearest community, which would be Bridgeville. There's nothing in WP:NPLACE that would establish this as a notable unincorporated community, nor does WP:NPLACE guarantee that an unincorporated community is notable at face value.Superman7515 (talk) 00:10, 22 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Comment: In Delaware, major intersections were typically named but the roads were not.  People living in rural Delaware still usually identify where they live by the nearest interesection (as opposed to the USPS zip system which uses nearest town).  As Delaware get's developed, the names sometime live on like with Price's Corner Shopping Center or the housing developments in Churchman's Crossing.  Other times, like with Sharp's Crossroads (intersection of Naaman's & Foulk) the reference becomes unused with development.  This topic of Delaware named intersections probably deserves a (sourced) article of it's own.  RevelationDirect (talk) 10:55, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep It concerns me that good faith nomination says that this article is a "non-notable place incorrectly listed as an unincorporated community, but actually just a literal crossroads where two roads cross." That doesn't take into account the local convention where areas are named after intersections.  It is like saying every city in California named after a mission or every town named after a port in Florida should be deleted because we don't like those naming conventions. There are currently 15 other Wikipedia articles on places named after intersections in rural Delaware. This article certainly needs some work and many of the others do too. But the issue is not with the underlying notability and I think this nomination would be a precedent for stripping article after article on rural Delaware. RevelationDirect (talk) 10:55, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Comment There are some communities that are "named" after the nearby intersection, as in the Price's Corner and Churchman's Crossing examples you mentioned or Hare's Corner, etc. but there is no community here. Historically, Adams Crossroads is the name of the intersection of the road that took you to Adamsville and the road that took you to Bridgeville before Delaware switched to road names as part of the enhanced 911 system in the early 2000's. The issue I brought up is that there is no proof of a current or historic community here, no existence of multiple reliable sources, and it fails to meet WP:GNG, WP:NRVE, or WP:NPLACE. On a side note that has no bearing on the discussion, having lived in Delaware for my entire life, the phenomenon of naming areas after local intersections seems to be mainly focused in northern Delaware. For the first 30+ years of my life I lived downstate and if you asked someone where they were from, they said the nearest town. When I moved to New Castle County, it is completely different as people identify with their tiny communities and they even put your apartment complex or unincorporated community on your driver's license, which is something that is not done in Kent or Sussex Counties.Superman7515 (talk) 13:04, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Rename? I've always heard this area referred to as "Adams Corner". RevelationDirect (talk) 10:55, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete, it's about time we started cleaning up these "gazetteer" permastubs and requiring substantial coverage, not a blurb on a map or in an atlas. This isn't even a real village, it's just a "populated place", which is a term so vague it gets used to, apparently, list every crossroads that a couple people live at and a map gives a name to. As nothing is "inherently notable", this clearly is not. Seraphimblade Talk to me 14:21, 26 August 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.