Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Afa (mythology)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. (non-admin closure) Juliette Han (talk) 13:07, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Afa (mythology)

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This is a stub article on a supposed Samoan god that, quite frankly, I'm not sure actually exists. Or, at least certainly not in the form that is described in this article. Until a couple of years ago, this article had a second sentence stating that "Afa" was simply the Samoan word for "storm", and not the name of a deity. And while that sentence was rightly removed for not being reliably sourced, it may have actually been true. The single source currently listed in the article is the only source I could find in web searches, and upon actually reading it, I discovered that the information presented there does not actually support a single bit of information here. Instead of a Storm God from Samoa, it describes a soul-eating demon from the island of Fakofo. I also searched through all of my physical books on world mythology, and was unable to find a single reference to this supposed god. So, does anyone know of an actual reliable source that supports the claim that "Afa" was the name of a Samoan storm god? If not, the article should be deleted, as presenting non-verifiable information. Rorshacma (talk) 18:33, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Mythology-related deletion discussions. Rorshacma (talk) 18:33, 21 May 2020 (UTC)


 * Withdrawn by Nominator - Sorry, I should have done this earlier, but I forgot it was still open. Austronesier's rewrite of the article to be about an actual verifiable topic instead of something of dubious legitimacy have addressed my initial concerns about the misinformation that was previously presented here.  There is certainly further room for discussion on potential Merging or Renaming of the article, but straight deletion is no longer appropriate.  Rorshacma (talk) 19:11, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment I found a reliable language reference that states afà means cyclone in Tokelau, which includes Fakaofo: (p 14) ☆ Bri (talk) 20:00, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that was the assertion that had been previously made in the article - that the word "afa" meant storm, or similar, but did not actually equate to the name of a storm god. And the source currently in the article says that "Afa" was an alternate name of the demigod-devil more commonly known as "Toikia" that preyed on humans, without any mention of it being associated with storms.  That is my main concern here - it seems like someone combined the fact that the word "afa" meant cyclone and that Afa is also an alternate name of the demi-god Toikia, and created this unverifiable Samoan storm god.
 * Also, as a note, the "Dictionary of Polynesian Mythology" being used as a source took its information on the entry for "Afa" from this paper. That paper also makes no mention of any of the information in this Wikiepdia article, and also states that "Toikia" was the more common name for the demigod.  And while I can find other information on Toikia, this is the only source I can find asserting that "Afa" is even an alternate name for him. Rorshacma (talk) 22:57, 21 May 2020 (UTC)


 * Comment, agree that afa means storm, these book titles show that: O le afa ("other titles - Storm"), "Tapasā o folauga i aso afā = Compass of sailing in storm", "The day of the storm = Aso o le afā", and here, this article: HMS Calliope in the Great Hurricane at Samoa – 1889 has "On hearing of O le Afa, the big hurricane,...", also found here, an article that discusses 'afa braid (towards the bottom of the page refers to "Three-ply composite braid ('afa'afalua).": "These ropes are used in lashing houses during heavy storms of wind.". Coolabahapple (talk) 13:38, 24 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Language-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 13:40, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Comment In its current wording, the information is spurious. The above cited article in the Journal of the Polynesian Society contains the Tokelauan (not Samoan!) myth about an aitu or supernatural being called Toikia/Afā. For some reason, someone conflated this with the word afā, which means 'storm' in many Polynesian languages, including Samoan and Tokelauan (cf. here on p.134). The Russian WP article ru:Афа is much better sourced and structured, and could serve as a starting point for improving the en.WP page (plus this source). The page should then be moved to "Afā (mythology)". But then, I am not quite sure whether the whole thing meets WP:GNG. –Austronesier (talk) 14:36, 24 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Add I have corrected the most basic information according to the sources. –Austronesier (talk) 15:06, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Java Hurricane  09:21, 29 May 2020 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   17:48, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep as stub. As noted above, I have removed all spurious information, and the remaining information is well-cited. Actually, this page is a perfect candidate for merging into a broader article, but AFAICS, there is no apt merge target page. –Austronesier (talk) 18:12, 5 June 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.