Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Against All Will


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Neither the arguments for keeping or deleting are particularly strong. No prejudice against renomination in a few weeks or month with a clearer argument, or with redirecting if there is talk page consensus. TonyBallioni (talk) 00:48, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

Against All Will

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

does not appear to meet notability requirements for a musical group RF23 (talk) 14:49, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom, EP also doesn't bring up much. Caro7200 (talk) 14:59, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
 *  Keep or redirect - Keep this decently sourced article, redirect to Cello Dias, or start article about James Christopher Allen, who is a Grammy award winning musician. --Jax 0677 (talk) 15:19, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of California-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 16:44, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 16:45, 29 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Keep Basically a supergroup, though short-lived. Meets WP:MUSIC. Chubbles (talk) 00:40, 4 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Is it really a supergroup if only one of the members is notable enough for a wikipedia article?RF23 (talk) 00:45, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
 * All four members were previously in other notable bands. The rest is just semantics. Chubbles (talk) 02:17, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
 * It's not semantics. Allen was in Puddle of Mudd for only 4 years at the beginning and did not appear on their debut album or make any contributions, Currant's band barely squeaks by for notability (that might be a future AfD, they were essentially just a band that got popular in Dallas and nowhere else), Wilson isn't even mentioned on the Dead Kennedy's page, and was only a touring musician for tatu. None of them were "a reasonably prominent member" of those groups. Cello Dias is the only one with any sort of notability or any real connection to a notable group.RF23 (talk) 03:37, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I'll grant that Boomstick Wilson wasn't a noteworthy member of the Dead Kennedys, and that his connection to the band, whatever it is, is so minor that it doesn't merit mention here without sourcing. But he did drum for t.a.t.u. and for part of one of the singers' solo careers. Allen was a formative member of Puddle of Mudd and, apparently, wrote some of their biggest hits. I think SSD scrapes by - as with this band, part of the problem is that we are ten to fifteen years beyond the peaks of their popularity, and a good deal of the press base has eroded; much of the online literature that covered this stuff is either gone or doesn't archive itself, as evidenced by the profusion of archival links. For Against All Will, there's still a few things out there beyond what's already in the page: e.g.,, , . Chubbles (talk) 12:31, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Delete, existing sourcing is not sufficient in quality and a search found no better ones. Notability is not inherited from the notability of other members, especially since it seems that some of them weren't involved in other bands for very long anyway. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 02:30, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   10:37, 7 May 2020 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   14:35, 14 May 2020 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: The specific claim of how this group does (or doesn't) meet NMUSIC hasn't received consensus. Relisting to hopefully achieve such a consensus.
 * Delete, while the individuals are clearly recognisable to those who are interested in this topic, as band they haven't received much coverage and the EP adds nothing in terms of notability. Its unlikely to grow beyond a stub. → Lil- ℧niquԐ1 - ( Talk ) - 18:25, 17 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Note that the article now meets WP:MUSIC bullet 6, as Cello Dias and James Christopher Allen both are independently notable musicians (both now have articles). There is no clear redirect target at this point, even though redirection could potentially be a solution if only one member were notable. I see no reason why the article is unlikely to grow beyond a stub; it's already grown beyond a stub. Chubbles (talk) 22:13, 17 May 2020 (UTC)
 * For what it's worth to any closer, James Christopher Allen is now a redirect to Puddle of Mudd; this may have some impact on the weight of the argument to notability by NMUSIC #6. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 19:02, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Barkeep49 (talk) 01:35, 22 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom; all the sources are nine years old. --Stay safe, ◊ PRAHLAD balaji (M•T•A•C) This message was left at 01:41, 22 May 2020 (UTC)
 *  Comment - The ages of the sources is not relevant at all. --Jax 0677 (talk) 02:15, 22 May 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.