Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Aggtown


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete all. This was relisted recently, but it seems to me that consensus has been pretty clearly established. Sourcing is insufficient for an article here at this time. Glass  Cobra  01:26, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Aggtown

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Not notable group. WP:MUSIC I cannot find any reliable sources. There are lots of links on the page, but they are all to sites where anyone can post music. Some songs are 'charted' but it is from SoundClick a site for self-promotion, not a national/significant chart. Clubmarx (talk) 23:50, 5 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I am also nominating the following related pages as these are Aggtown albums/song articles all created by the same person, today:

I agree with your nomination for these...perhaps they should be merged instead?
 * Clubmarx, how can Aggtown's OFFICIAL website be unreliable? To verify biographical information, I checked out all profiles claimed to be Aggtown's as well as emailing the webmaster of the official website. I've checked all the links as well and see nothing unreliable about this the Aggtown Wiki claims. Every song and album, as well as chart listings, is 100% accurate. User above claims that SoundClick is not a national/significant chart, yet several significant artists who have been signed by distribution labels are listed on SoundClick. Also, TuneCore, Inc., the label of Aggtown, also distributes music for Jay-Z, Nine Inch Nails and Ziggy Marley. Techno_Expert (talk) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.193.211.15 (talk) 00:01, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
 * See Reliable for what I mean by reliable. Soundclick is not a major chart that establishes notability; here are some accepted charts for notability WP:CHARTS. TuneCore may have major names on it, but being on TuneCore does not make a band notable. TuneCore is not a record label anyway. Clubmarx (talk) 00:09, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
 * According to WP:MUSIC, #5 declares that the label (in this case, TuneCore & UMGD) are notable. Major names = notable.


 * Delete, fails notability per WP:MUSIC. Searching finds no significant coverage in reliable, third-party, sources. All their "chart success" is on non-notable charts.   Esradekan Gibb    "Talk" 01:52, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions.  —Clubmarx (talk) 02:13, 7 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep, fulfills #5 of WP:MUSIC. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.255.114.188 (talk) 05:15, 7 September 2009 (UTC)  — 76.255.114.188 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.


 * KEEP, meets and succeeds notability per WP:MUSIC. Although Aggtown does not have chart success on the charts listed on WP:CHARTS, this is NOT a requirement per WP:MUSIC. Besides that, SoundClick is not listed as a non-notable chart on WP:CHARTS. This artist DOES meet requirement #5, which is satisfied by the artist's current label(s). TuneCore is a partner of Universal Music Group Distribution, both of which have a list of notable artists (mentioned above and on the Wiki). TuneCore also awards music certifications -- one of the primary purposes of a record label; therefore, the validity is proven. Additionally, TuneCore releases more albums/singles in single day than any other label distributes in a full year . I find this very notable. Please note that TuneCore also MUST approve all music distributed...it isn't just a self-serve distributor. Aggtown can be found on iTunes and any other major music merchant, and if you examine the artist details, you will see that the record label is indeed listed (on all sites, and where not listed you can contact the site to retrieve the label's name). Here is an example: http://www.lala.com/#album/2306124484406495274. Aggtown has also released two or more albums.


 * Only ONE criterion must be met. See WP:MUSIC. Aggtown fulfills #5 of this requirement.
 * Quick question for everyone...why do people keep ignoring the fact that only ONE criteria must be met? Failure to notice leads to confusion. It is obvious that #5 of WP:MUSIC has clearly been met-- if you don't think so, by all means look up Aggtown on ANY major music merchant and you will see. It doesn't matter if they don't have a chart notability....#5 of WP:MUSIC has been fulfilled and one and only one criterion must be met. Aggtown is a valid entry. It appears that some users are ignoring #5 and focusing on the WP:CHARTS argument. I would like to inform everyone that not every artist appears on those charts...especially independent artists (which I think is unfair to exclude). Techno Expert (talk) 04:50, 7 September 2009 (UTC)


 * As far as third-party, reliable sources, I do believe iTunes, eMusic, DJTUNES, etc qualifies. It may be advised to send these companies queries to determine the exact label for Aggtown.


 * Recommendation: Aggtown biographical information be removed or downsized due to lack of third-party biographical sources; however, the Discography has been verified via iTunes etc along with the SoundClick charts (which are independent and non-notable but not listed on non-notable of WP:CHARTS). I find the music group very notable concerning #5 WP:MUSIC, despite having no rankings on WP:CHARTS-- it is obvious that Aggtown has released two or more albums on an independent label. This label may need verification however. See comments below.


 * Comment: It seems this band was never signed to any label; distributing music on a music upload site is not a record label. Clubmarx (talk) 15:02, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment: TuneCore is not a music upload site. It is a distribution service that has partnered with Universal Music Group Distribution to deliver music. Also, I believe that in one of the reference articles it was discussed that TuneCore would soon be managing licensing etc....essentially the functions of a label. I may need clarification on the definitions of a music label. Are you aware that according to DJTUNES and various other stores, Aggtown uses a label by the name Aggtown Records (NOT TuneCore) in addition to TuneCore's services? To determine if DJTUNES was another distributor like TuneCore, I tried to register as my "own" label but was told that all labels undergo review and must receive approval from the DJTUNES administrators prior to selling releases for their artists. Obviously, Aggtown Records received approval because they are listed as the record label (not TuneCore). I've noticed that in some stores, TuneCore/Aggtown Records is listed as the label but in others it's just Aggtown Records. I believe that this means that Aggtown Records is the label and TuneCore is the distributor. I tried to find information about the Aggtown Records label but could find very little, so I'm not sure if they're a certified label or not. But as I mentioned about DJTUNES, I was told that ALL labels undergo critical review and must receive approval; thus, I believe Aggtown is signed to a label by the name Aggtown Records. I will be contacting the music group to determine if their label is certified or not. Techno Expert (talk) 16:05, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment: Although TuneCore is a music distribution service, would it not be considered a major netlabel? This is where it falls into gray area, because if it could be considered a major netlabel then that would mean it is a notable independent label, especially with its list of notable clients. If TuneCore does not qualify, then the argument shifts to Aggtown Records. This may well possibly be a independent label but I am anaware of any prominent clients aside from Aggtown. Techno Expert (talk) 16:19, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

CONCLUDED: I have left all comments and debates above intact to avoid vandalism claims. After spending the majority of today researching Aggtown and Aggtown Records and all this mess I've been dragging out, I've come to an agreement with the comments and claims of Clubmarx and Esradekan. Sorry guys, I was just trying to get facts so that Wiki didn't delete without reason. I am fairly new to Wikipedia and do not know all the laws of the land here. Apparently, after much digging, it appears that Aggtown Records IS a netlabel-- however it is disqualified from #5 of WP:MUSIC because the independent label does not have any other artists besides Aggtown. Therefore, its notability is not enough to sustain for Aggtown. Yes, officially Aggtown HAS released two or more albums (two albums and one single, according to their label), but because the group is only signed with a non-notable label, my previous argument is invalid. I was a little confused into thinking that TuneCore was actually a label because they do distribution, music certifications, and Billboard chart entries. Plus, they are partners with Universal Music Group Distribution (a very notable label), and TuneCore also has many notable artists. This was my argument behind #5 of WP:MUSIC; however, because TuneCore is apparently not a label my claim is invalid. I would like to point out that if TuneCore was a label or if it did merge with UMGD then my claim WOULD be valid. I was quite frustrated that Wiki members were recommending deletion solely based on the fact that Aggtown was not listed on a notable chart from WP:CHARTS. This is NOT a requirement for notability, so I hope everyone remembers that for future deletions of other bands. And there are some gray-area criteria of WP:MUSIC that I think Wikipedia should review and improve. From my recent communications with Aggtown's manager, it appears that they will be terminating music production by the end of this year so that their lead DJ can start a solo career. This indicates that future Aggtown inclusion to Wikipedia will be unlikely. I will continue to monitor Aggtown to determine if a future Wiki entry would be valid; however, for now it is invalid and should be removed from Wikipedia. I must say that this process has been an adventure, although I am a little disappointed that all my hard work and research for the Wiki article has gone to waste. I want to thank Clubmarx and Esradekan for your feedback and contributions to this debate.

Recommendation: DELETE

Techno Expert (talk) 19:58, 7 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete Fails WP:MUSIC, including #5, as all releases are on minor/vanity-ish labels. Yilloslime T C  21:21, 9 September 2009 (UTC)