Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Agnes Taubert


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was withdrawn. (non-admin closure) SD0001 (talk) 17:18, 15 September 2019 (UTC)

Agnes Taubert

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This may be enough in deWP, but I don't think it is here.  DGG ( talk ) 04:32, 12 September 2019 (UTC) my error. Withdrawn.  DGG ( talk ) 17:16, 15 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Philosophy-related deletion discussions. North America1000 04:48, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. North America1000 04:49, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Germany-related deletion discussions. North America1000 04:49, 12 September 2019 (UTC)


 * Keep. No valid rationale provided for deletion. Mccapra (talk) 03:16, 14 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Frederick C. Beiser discusses her works in three of xyr books, including a few facts here and there not in this article (including that Taubert's critics mistakenly used "er" for her, since her byline used the initial "A."). ‎Manuel Pérez Cornejo mentions Taubert (on pages 8 and 15) in xyr introduction to the translation of Julius Bahnsen's Der Widerspruch im Wissen und Wesen der Welt.  This is certainly not an unknown historical person, and she is known for her work, which is cited quite a lot.  The thing about the name was still going strong a century later.  Wolfgang Schömel's Apokalyptische Reiter sind in der Luft confidently declares her to be a pseudonym on page 196 in 1985, one sentence after calling her "Ehefrau". Uncle G (talk) 08:58, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep There are other sources as well as the three Beiser books, which do have quite a lot about her - Weltschmerz in particular discusses her on 5 pages, and he describes her as having "a fearsome intellect and will / fearsome polemical talent all her own", and talks about her views: "she admitted that disappointment among the masses was indeed one reason for pessimism. She disagreed with Volkert, however, that one should try to encourage optimism, to give the masses hope to change their situation ...".
 * I find snippet views on Google Books of publications including:
 * Die Gesellschaft, Volume 3, a reprint (from when?) appears to have a piece by Hartmann, as the visible text says "Im Jahre 1871 verheiratete ich mich mit Agnes Taubert, der Tochter eines alten Freundes von meinem Vater, des pensionierten Artillerie-Oberst Taubert. Unter der Chiffre A. T. oder unter dem Namen A. Taubert hat dieselbe sowohl vor wie ..." which suggests that she was writing before her marriage, as well as afterwards;
 * 1912, Foundations of the History of Psychology: Founders of modern psychology, which on p 184 starts "Agnes Taubert, the daughter of an artillery colonel", and has more on p 207;
 * 1918, this Dutch book, De Vrouw, de vrouwenbeweging en het vrouwenvraagstuk, Volume 2, has at least a paragraph about her (no more is visible in snippet view), which says something like (per Google Translate, I don't know any Dutch): "Agnes Taubert, his first wife, after many internal struggles, had freed herself from her strict religious beliefs to become a fervent supporter of his philosophical beliefs. In those early years of fierce struggle, she supported her husband awake: she repeatedly repelled the attacks on von Hartmann".
 * 1926-1950, at least, her work Der Pessimismus und seine Gegner is included in the Encyclopædia Britannica: A New Survey of Universal Knowledge entry on Pessimism, ;
 * 1930, Contemporary Thought of Germany, Volume 1, "Agnes Taubert has attempted to show how Hartmann's teaching can be turned into a powerful lever for the regeneration of the world" ;
 * 1948, A Critical Evaluation of Pessimism, which on p 27 says "He married the famous Agnes Taubert, herself an ardent pessimist and ...", but nothing is visible in the snippet view ;
 * 2002 Melancholiana: Verzeichnis einer Bibliothek has a very short entry on her ;
 * 2008 A Swedish source mentions a book by Dahlkvist which has a chapter on Agnes Taubert (this may be Nietzsche and the philosophy of pessimism : a study of Nietzsche's relation to the pessimistic tradition : Schopenhauer, Hartmann, Leopardi, 2007?)
 * I have not yet included anything in the article except a quote from a review of one of Beiser's books, which describes Taubert as "one of the first women to have a prominent role in a public intellectual debate in Germany." I do think that, with access to a good library of philosophy and the history of philosophy, it would be possible to add quite a bit more - the chapter in the Dahlkvist book would probably be a good place to start. And I think even these snippets show that there is sustained coverage, more than trivial, and not just saying that she was someone's wife, but describing/explaining/discussing her views and works - enough to meet WP:GNG or WP:BASIC. RebeccaGreen (talk) 22:45, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. RebeccaGreen (talk) 22:56, 13 September 2019 (UTC)


 * Keep. I tend to be a bit on the deletionist side, but this AfD is ridiculous. I never heard of her before, but then I haven't heard of her husband either, because I am not interested in philosophy. In any case, anyone who wrote 2 books that are still available 150 years later in three academic libraries in a single city alone (Berlin) is very likely to be notable. (Between Berlin State Library and the various central and decentralised libraries of Humboldt University and of Free University of Berlin there are 4 copies of her 1872 book and 5 copies of her 1873 book. The 1872 book has also been digitized in Berlin. And it's not just Berlin. Munich (at the other cultural end of Germany) also has 2 copies of her second book. She also made it into a printed collection of historical short biographies from her state. (Wer war wer in Mecklenburg und Vorpommern - Who was who in Mecklenburg and Vorpommern; Mecklenburg and Vorpommern are two historical regions that now make up the north-eastern most state of Germany.) It also stands to reason that a woman writing two philosophical books in 1872/73 would automatically have been a celebrity at the time. Some people overdo it with the feminist rewriting of history, but this AfD looks like the opposite problem. – And just in case it still needs saying: Notability is not language or culture dependent. If someone is notable in the Basque country and all sources are in Basque, it's difficult to write a proper English article, but the person is still notable for the English Wikipedia. Hans Adler 18:44, 14 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep per the comments above. Notability is established by the well-sourced "was a major influence on the pessimism controversy". That controversy is largely forgotten today but being notable at a particular time establishes notability. Johnuniq (talk) 01:18, 15 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep. My error. AfD request withdrawn.  DGG ( talk ) 08:20, 15 September 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.