Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ainvayi Ainvayi


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Randykitty (talk) 10:15, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

Ainvayi Ainvayi

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Songs fails WP:NSONGS for no multiple, non-trivial, independent sources. PROD removed without giving any reason. The article has now reviews from non-WP:RS sources like SwafNews and ApunkaChoice. Only reliable review is from Bollywood Hungama; but NSONGS says "Coverage of a song in the context of an album review does not establish notability", which is what is happening here. Other sources are of IMDb, the production house and other self-published websites. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 04:31, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Albums and songs-related deletion discussions. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 04:32, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 04:32, 14 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep: Received numerous awards and nominations: International Indian Film Academy Awards Best Song Recording (won); International Indian Film Academy Awards Best Playback Singer - Female (nominated); International Indian Film Academy Awards Best Lyricist (nominated); GiMA Award for Best Film Song (nominated); GiMA Award for Best Female Playback Singer (nominated); GiMA Award for Best Lyricist (nominated); GiMA Award for Best Music Arranger and Programmer (nominated); Star Screen Award for Best Choreography (nominated); Apsara Award for Best Female Singer (nominated); Apsara Award for Best Choreography (nominated). Immensely popular song, so much so that the title and even imagery of the completely unrelated Punjabi film Oh Yaara Ainvayi Ainvayi Lut Gaya copied it five years later in order to ride the song's coattails:,  (the constantly repeated lyrics of "Ainvayi Ainvayi" are "ainvayi ainvayi lut gaya": , ). The article is properly and accurately sourced from independent reliable sources; the official soundtrack info is used only to cite a description of what the song's function in the film is, and to cite the fact that the song was released more than a month prior to the theatrical release of the Bollywood film it appeared in, Band Baaja Baaraat; this information is necessary to explain the comments of the reviewers. Easily meets WP:NSONG. -- Softlavender (talk) 01:26, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
 * No multiple, non-trivial, independent sources. And what you are giving here are facebook, youtube, lyricsmasti.com, fatherandsonfilms.com which are far far far far lacking in being WP:RS. Same with IMDb, Apunkachoice and swafnews used in the article. Just bring neat articles from newspapers which talk about the song only and not just one or two lines stuffed in a big essay about the film and how the actress was bubbly and cute in it. And btw, those references to awards haven't also bothered to elaborately speak about the song. They have just stuck up a big picture of actor-actress and have written one liner "Sunidhi Chauhan for Ainvayi Ainvayi, Band Baaja Baraat." Just one line. That too isn't clear if she won it or was nominated or what! They didn't even bother sticking up the picture of the person in subject, i.e. the singer. Seems they are just trying to get page hits on the actor's face value. This kinda rubbish reference, even if coming from Hindustan Times, is waste to claim notability. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 03:51, 16 September 2015 (UTC)


 * I don't think you read my comment correctly. I have not listed "facebook, youtube, lyricsmasti.com, fatherandsonfilms.com" as reliable sources anywhere. In terms of the song article under discussion: Multiple awards and nominations (at least one win and at least nine nominations), listed as a Top 10 of 2010 by The Telegraph, and multiple other Top Tens and other accolades in various other independent sources, equate to WP:NSONG. Softlavender (talk) 05:54, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I read it correctly and that from where we can see you adding 4 external links to those green "reliable sources". You have used similar quality of references in the article as well. Btw, see WP:CHARTS; none of the Top NN charts you are listing are included in there. We do have systemic bias in here that none of the Indian song charts are listed at WP:CHARTS (or probably none are notable) and that's hence not fair to dismiss your listings. But then you have to prove to us why these charts are notable. And you have still not read/understood what WP:NSONGS wants. "NON-TRIVIAL" is not a superfluous word in there. We have plenty film awards and despite winning so many nominations and awards you fail to bring in a single good source which talks about the song. Side note: Try WP:QUOTEFARM. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 06:40, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I have not added citations or WP:ELs to any of those 4 links; please stop saying and implying that I have done anything of the sort, anywhere concerning this article. Softlavender (talk) 06:47, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
 * The very first ref you added to the article was IMDb. Then you went on to add Swafnews and ApunkaChoice. And others you added in this AfD in your keep rationale. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 07:22, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Dharmadhyaksha, you're twisting your own words around. You wrote, and I quoted, "facebook, youtube, lyricsmasti.com, fatherandsonfilms.com"; you again typed "those green 'reliable sources'"; I stated I had never added citations or WP:ELs to any of those 4 links and asked you to stop saying and implying that I had; you are changing your own claims and words into something completely different. I'm done with this discussion. Softlavender (talk) 07:41, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I didn't say you are using these 4 in the article. But you are using these 4 in this AfD and the other 3 in the article. Irrespective of the page domain, a non-RS is non-RS and it can't be used to establish anything anywhere; article or AfD. You are the one picking up wrong twigs and sidelining that NSONGS wants non-trivial mentions. §§Dharmadhyaksha</i>§§ {Talk / Edits} 08:23, 16 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete - I'm going to have to agree with the nom on this one. The lack of RS kills this one. Without those RS, it fails WP:NSONG, and I can't find them.  Onel 5969  <i style="color:blue">TT me</i> 13:27, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Hindustan Times (four citations), Bollywood Hungama (three citations); The Telegraph; Koimoi; one major win and nine major nominations; Top 10 of 2010 (and several other Top 10 lists); top 21 songs of the past 100 years? Softlavender (talk) 01:32, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

<div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Randykitty (talk) 15:27, 22 September 2015 (UTC) <div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — ☮ JAaron95  <sup style="color:Green;font-family:Times;">Talk   08:34, 29 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete - Article lacks significant coverage in RS and fails WP:NSONGS. —  San ska ri  Hangout 14:28, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Hindustan Times (four citations), Bollywood Hungama (three citations); The Telegraph; and Koimoi; are all RS. One major win and nine major nominations; Top 10 of 2010 (and several other Top 10 lists); top 21 songs of the past 100 years. Softlavender (talk) 14:35, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
 * That you have already mentioned above and argued for the same with . You don't need to write it again and again. —  San ska ri  Hangout 14:44, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
 * I do when people keep saying there are no RSs, because these obviously are RSs. Softlavender (talk) 14:48, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
 * I've corrected the deletion !vote reason. Coverage in depth about the subject in reliable sources is needed to stand it alone. The sources you are talking about doesn't have significant coverage about the subject. In addition, I doubt if Bollywood Hungama is a reliable source. —  San ska ri  Hangout 15:17, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

If you carefully re-read the first sentence of WP:NSONGS, you'll see it does pass. "Songs and singles are probably notable if they have been the subject of multiple, non-trivial published works whose sources are independent of the artist and label."

Per the statement and the footnotes, "significant coverage" is not required; only non-trivial; and obviously this qualifies:

Not to mention it additionally meets WP:NSONGS by "#3 Has won one or more significant awards", by winning an International Indian Film Academy Award. -- Softlavender (talk) 15:42, 2 October 2015 (UTC)


 * #3 Has won one or more significant awards, can you provide a reliable source which mentions, that Ainvayi Ainvayi, has won International Indian Film Academy Award? Softlavender, there is no end to argumentds and this is what you are doing again right her on Afd. About WP:NSONGS has already clarified above. —  San ska ri  Hangout 15:59, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, the sources for the IIFA award are all in the article. The win is not in dispute. Softlavender (talk) 16:15, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Its like you are confused about the award. Well, as per not only me but also the sources there it has mentioned that the person who has recorded the song has own that particular award you are talking about and not the song and there is huge difference b/tn what you are trying to bring here. —  San ska ri  Hangout 17:03, 2 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete Disclosure: My opinion was sought here. The Telegraph article is a paragraph about the movie, not the song struck by/at &mdash; Spaceman Spiff  17:03, 2 October 2015 (UTC), Airtel hellotunes isn't something that has any significance, that it was included in a music video is also not of any significance. In the final analysis there isn't any significant awards for the song itself, multiple non-significant awards yes, and the coverage on HT is web-promo stuff that is a feature of their website as opposed to the print edition. &mdash; Spaceman  Spiff  16:03, 2 October 2015 (UTC)


 * You're mistaken about the Telegraph article. It is not about the movie, it is a list of their Top releases of the year, and if you Control+F "ainvayi" you'll see it has a distinct entry in the list, unrelated to the film. Softlavender (talk) 16:11, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
 * I have struck that part of my post, I missed that second paragraph while reading through. It doesn't change my analysis though. &mdash; Spaceman  Spiff  17:03, 2 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Note: I have said enough already but i am again here to clarify one thing. Softlavender is claiming here in the AfD that the song is in "top 21 songs of the past 100 years" and i really had to see which critic in their right sense kept it in "top 21" from the 100 years of Bollywood music span. Well, turns out that the reference, a promo-video btw, actually says that the song is used in the song "Apna Bombay Talkies", which is a medley of 21 Bollywood songs. It does not claim to be the medley of "top 21" songs as such. Anyone with mediocre knowledge of Bollywood songs would also agree with me that a medley of top 21 songs of Bollywood can never be prepared by excluding creations of Rafi, Kishor Kumar, Asha Bhosle, RD and SD Burman, Naushad, Shankar Jaikishan, OP Nayyar, Shailendra, Ludhyanvi and many such stalwarts of Bollywood music. ABT is merely a collection of 21 songs, most probably selected only from modern songs, the oldest being "Hawa hawaii" from 1987's Mr. India and many critics agree that the Golden age of Bollywood lasted only until 1960s. §§<i style="color:#E0115F;">Dharmadhyaksha</i>§§ {Talk / Edits} 17:04, 2 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Note on COI sources: The film Band Baaja Baaraats media partners were Radio Mirchi, a subsidary of the The Times Group. They also launched a "Shaadi Aapki, Kharcha Humara Contest" (Win a Free wedding) See this youtube video 0.14s shows media partners as Radio Mirchi and Big Cinemas and others. In such case, should promotions, reviews or spending 38 weeks on top 20 songs list be considered conflict free? Especially when there is no clarity on how the Top 20 list of Radio Mirchi is made? §§<i style="color:#E0115F;">Dharmadhyaksha'</i>§§ {Talk / Edits} 18:36, 5 October 2015 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.