Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Akhil Bharatiya Jan Sangh


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. This was not the easiest close I've done but overall I find the analysis of sources cited to support WP:N by DBigXray to be persuasive and the responses to their analysis, not so much. Ad Orientem (talk) 00:27, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

Akhil Bharatiya Jan Sangh

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This is a non-notable political party, a splinter group of the Bharatiya Jana Sangh (precursor of BJP). The lone source that has been cited for its existence has gone dead, and I can't find any other. Kautilya3 (talk) 10:51, 9 January 2019 (UTC) Fails WP:NORG. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 14:44, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politics-related deletion discussions. ― Abelmoschus Esculentus  ( talk  •  contribs ) 11:03, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. ― Abelmoschus Esculentus  ( talk  •  contribs ) 11:03, 9 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Comment We really shouldn't consider deletion of this article until we've had input from Hindi speakers because likely any sources that may exist will be in Hindi. Let's hit up the India project and ask them. FOARP (talk) 13:34, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
 * WP India was already hit up with edits by User:Abelmoschus Esculentus above who added it to WikiProject Deletion sorting/India which is how I got notified. India has a lot of major English newspapers in every region, so if the subject is notable, coverage in english media exist mostly. -- D Big X ray ᗙ  15:49, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions.  D Big X ray ᗙ  15:41, 9 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Delete Fails WP:NORG and per WP:NOTINHERITED. Run of the mill promotional article about a political party in India. This party has never won any elections and there is a complete lack of reliable sources discussing this non notable political party. The article is promotional and tries to WP:INHERIT notability from Jan Sangh, which is a notable party but "Akhil Bharatiya Jan Sangh" is not notable. -- D Big X ray ᗙ  15:49, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. I am unable to find coverage of substance. Vanamonde (talk) 18:21, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep, party is notable, in press we find a number of articles in which the party is the main subject: Times of India, Times of India, The Tribune, The Hindu, The Hindu, The Tribune, Jagran, etc. --Soman (talk) 18:33, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
 * All those sources are doing is reproducing press releases or statements by party officials. These bits of information do not constitute intellectually independent coverage, and as such do not count towards GNG. Vanamonde (talk) 18:43, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
 * As per the Notability_(organizations_and_companies), the five components must be evaluated separately and independently to determine if it is met. Here is the table analysing the sources presented by Soman. There must be multiple sources passing the criteria, but as of now there isn't a single source meeting the 5 points, hence the subject fails WP:ORGCRIT.-- D Big X ray ᗙ  19:11, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
 * {| class=wikitable

! Source || Significant? || Independent? || Reliable? || Secondary? || Pass/Fail || Notes
 * Times of India || ❌ || ❌ || ✅ || ❌ || ❌ || A single-para article based on the press statement issued by ABJS
 * Times of India || ❌ || ❌ || ✅ || ❌ || ❌ || A single-para article based on the press statement issued by ABJS
 * The Tribune || ❌ || ❌ || ✅ || ❌ || ❌ || statement of president of the national youth wing of the ABJS
 * The Hindu || ✅ || ❌ || ✅ || ❌ || ❌ || article based on the statement of the ABJS after its meeting
 *  The Hindu || ❌  || ✅ || ✅ || ✅ || ❌ || A single-sentence mention of ABJS in  the article about municipal election results.
 * The Tribune || ❌ || ❌ || ✅ || ❌ || ❌ || Statement of chief general secretary of ABJS
 *  Jagran || ❌ || ❌ || ✅ || ❌ || ❌ || Statement of regional general secretary of ABJS
 * The Hindu || ✅ || ❌ || ✅ || ❌ || ❌ || article based on the statement of the ABJS after its meeting
 *  The Hindu || ❌  || ✅ || ✅ || ✅ || ❌ || A single-sentence mention of ABJS in  the article about municipal election results.
 * The Tribune || ❌ || ❌ || ✅ || ❌ || ❌ || Statement of chief general secretary of ABJS
 *  Jagran || ❌ || ❌ || ✅ || ❌ || ❌ || Statement of regional general secretary of ABJS
 * The Tribune || ❌ || ❌ || ✅ || ❌ || ❌ || Statement of chief general secretary of ABJS
 *  Jagran || ❌ || ❌ || ✅ || ❌ || ❌ || Statement of regional general secretary of ABJS
 *  Jagran || ❌ || ❌ || ✅ || ❌ || ❌ || Statement of regional general secretary of ABJS

! colspan=5| Total qualifying sources || 0 || There must be multiple qualifying sources to meet the notability requirements WP:ORGCRIT
 * }
 * -- D Big X ray ᗙ  19:11, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Disagree that these are simply press-releases (which would be these newspapers re-printing something the party had written verbatim). They are coverage of party announcements in reliable sources, which is different as it shows those sources at least thought the party notable enough to report their announcements. I am not sure this makes for WP:SIGCOV though, since they aren't coverage of the party per se. I also see some Google books coverage 1 2. Leaning towards a very week keep but still don't feel I know enough about this topic to really say either way. FOARP (talk) 08:25, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
 * My main reason for nominating this article for deletion is that the party pretends to be the authentic Jan Sangh. That is what its web site says, viz., that it was founded in 1951 by Shayama Prasad Mukherjee. There are no secondary sources that verify this claim, and the page has become an unsourced POV pit. If any of the Keep voters are willing to clean up the page and maintain it, there would be no harm in keeping it. They shouldn't be expecting the community to waste its meagre resources on this pointless page. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 10:30, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
 * In what sense? "Akhil Bhartiya Jan Sangh (also known as ABJS) was originated from the roots of Bhartiya Jana Sangh. Bhartiya Jana Sangh or Jana Sangh was established in 1951 by Shri Shyama Prasad Mukherjee who died in 1953. Akhil Bhartiya Jan Sangh was established in 1979." Isn't that a correct statement, that ABJS originates in the original Jana Sangh? Clearly the article indicates that the 1951 BJS and the 1979 ABJS are distinct entities. --Soman (talk) 17:12, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Soman AFAIK, Jan Sangh merged with other parties into Janta Party which further disintegrated into other parties. BJP is what Jana Sangh morphed into. As of now it is not even established which year did ABJS came into existence. The year 1979 without any ref, was in the infobox and it was me who copied it from infobox it into the article, I tagged it as . Remember Wikipedia is not a reliable source, and reliable third party source covering the subject according to the above criteria is what this article is severely lacking. -- D Big X ray ᗙ  17:26, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
 * I have reviewed 2 sources presented by FOARP, 1 wrongly mentions Bharatiya Jana Sangh as ABJS and that too in passing. While 2 has 2 mentions in passing The second one is simply the post held by Balraj Madhok as the president of the subject. both these sources fail to pass WP:ORGCRIT-- D Big X ray ᗙ  22:40, 13 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Delete None of the sources shown here or in the article (which is a dead link to 2014 election results) pass WP:GNG. SportingFlyer  T · C  06:41, 12 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Keep Absolutely a notable subject with large amount of coverage in independent reliable academic references. (by Sterling Publishing), I could discover more but these are indeed enough assuring that notability exists. Dead link do count as reference see WP:LINKROT. Shivkarandholiya12 (talk) 14:01, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
 * You are confusing between "Bharatiya Jan Sangh" BJS and "Akhil Bharatiya Jan Sangh" ABJS. All the sources that you presented above are referring to Bharatiya Jan Sangh, that was founded by Syama Prasad Mukherjee in 1951 (even though your source mentions ABJS as a synonym of BJS). Here is another reliable source that mentions the 1951 conventions correctly In 1951, he was the convener of the first convention of Bharatiya Jana Sangh and was appointed the national Secretary-- D Big X ray ᗙ  14:25, 14 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Wrong. All of these sources (which I cited) are significantly discussing "Akhil Bharatiya Jana Sangh" as anyone can read only by clicking on the links. Shivkarandholiya12 (talk) 15:41, 14 January 2019 (UTC)


 * is right. The first source given by is using "Akhil Bharatiya Jana Sangh" for the party founded in 1951. Here is a bit more detail of the snippet . In fact, there are may other sources using this term for that party . The "Akhil" prefix was used occasionally. See for example, Donald Anthony Low (ed), Soundings in Modern South Asian History. Accordingly, Akhil Bharatiya Jana Sangh should redirect to Bharatiya Jan Sangh. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 21:48, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
 * First source has discussed the party which was founded after 1979. 39.53.191.74 (talk) 17:49, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Delete - there is no independent coverage of note and India has a history of party schism, with people going off in a huff, shouting loudly to the media and then achieving nothing of note. Quite often, the splinter group seems to end up back inside the party from which it split. A single sentence in the main party article would do the job nicely here - this thing isn't even worthy of a redirect because it hasn't actually done anything. that I can see. - Sitush (talk) 22:25, 15 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep There is enough coverage to allow separate article. Article is about a party that was founded in 1970s by Balraj Madhok. Previous stable version mentioned Balraj Madhok as the founder, but now the article is lacking any mention of him. Many relevant sources sufficiently discuss the party that was founded in 1970s by Balraj Madhok.(a whole chapter) The article can be made larger with these sources. 39.53.191.74 (talk) 17:49, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   19:07, 17 January 2019 (UTC)


 * IP, 39.53.191.74 Please note that Balraj Madhok is notable on his own. The fact that Balraj Madhok is notable does not guarantee that his party (that he founded) will also be notable, notability is not inherited see WP:NOTINHERITED, many of the sources you have presented have passing one line mentions or obituary articles of Madhok. these sources with passing mentions of the name does not pass the WP:ORGCRITE criteria. The subject must have significant coverage in "multiple" independent, reliable secondary sources. to pass the criteria. I have analyzed these sources.-- D Big X ray ᗙ  21:59, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
 * {| class=wikitable

! Source || Significant? || Independent? || Reliable? || Secondary? || Pass/Fail || Notes ! colspan=5| Total qualifying sources || 0 || There must be multiple qualifying sources to meet the notability requirements WP:ORGCRIT
 * Jansangh (Madhok) Manifesto, The Election Archives, Volumes 53-58(a whole chapter)  || || ❌ || ❌ || ❌ || ❌ ||  The Manifesto of the party prepared for contesting an election is a primary and self published source
 * Communalisation Of Politics And 10th Lok Sabha Elections, Asghar Ali Engineer || ❌ || ✅ || ✅ || ✅ || ❌ || A single-line passing mention of Madhok saying that he revived Jansangh.
 * Assembly elections, 1980 || ❌ || ✅ || ✅ || ✅ || ❌ || A single line mention That ABJS will be contesting in the 1980 election.
 * shodhganga  || ❌ || ✅ || ✅ || ✅ || ❌ || This source discusses Bharatiya Jana Sangh and BJP in great detail but does not even mention the subject ABJS.
 *  Political awakening in Kashmir || ❌  || ✅ || ✅ || ✅ || ❌ || The source does not mention ABJS even in passing.
 * Deccanherald || ❌ || ✅ || ✅ || ✅ || ❌ || An article that reports suspicion that the posters in the city might be from ABJS, but only mentions it in 1 para. Fails significant criteria.
 * patrika || ❌ || ❌ || ✅ || ✅ || ❌ || Balraj Madhok's obituary with 1 line passing mention of ABJS. Coverage of Madhok that fails WP:NOTINHERITED
 * aajtak || ❌ || ❌ || ✅ || ✅ || ❌ || Balraj Madhok's obituary with 1 line passing mention of ABJS, and also notes that ABJS "failed as a party". Coverage of Madhok that fails WP:NOTINHERITED
 *  theprint || ❌ ||✅ || ✅ || ✅ || ❌ || This source discusses Bharatiya Jana Sangh and BJP in great detail but only mention the subject ABJS in passing stating that ABJS remained a "sulking fiefdom of Madhok".
 *  Political awakening in Kashmir || ❌  || ✅ || ✅ || ✅ || ❌ || The source does not mention ABJS even in passing.
 * Deccanherald || ❌ || ✅ || ✅ || ✅ || ❌ || An article that reports suspicion that the posters in the city might be from ABJS, but only mentions it in 1 para. Fails significant criteria.
 * patrika || ❌ || ❌ || ✅ || ✅ || ❌ || Balraj Madhok's obituary with 1 line passing mention of ABJS. Coverage of Madhok that fails WP:NOTINHERITED
 * aajtak || ❌ || ❌ || ✅ || ✅ || ❌ || Balraj Madhok's obituary with 1 line passing mention of ABJS, and also notes that ABJS "failed as a party". Coverage of Madhok that fails WP:NOTINHERITED
 *  theprint || ❌ ||✅ || ✅ || ✅ || ❌ || This source discusses Bharatiya Jana Sangh and BJP in great detail but only mention the subject ABJS in passing stating that ABJS remained a "sulking fiefdom of Madhok".
 * aajtak || ❌ || ❌ || ✅ || ✅ || ❌ || Balraj Madhok's obituary with 1 line passing mention of ABJS, and also notes that ABJS "failed as a party". Coverage of Madhok that fails WP:NOTINHERITED
 *  theprint || ❌ ||✅ || ✅ || ✅ || ❌ || This source discusses Bharatiya Jana Sangh and BJP in great detail but only mention the subject ABJS in passing stating that ABJS remained a "sulking fiefdom of Madhok".
 *  theprint || ❌ ||✅ || ✅ || ✅ || ❌ || This source discusses Bharatiya Jana Sangh and BJP in great detail but only mention the subject ABJS in passing stating that ABJS remained a "sulking fiefdom of Madhok".
 *  theprint || ❌ ||✅ || ✅ || ✅ || ❌ || This source discusses Bharatiya Jana Sangh and BJP in great detail but only mention the subject ABJS in passing stating that ABJS remained a "sulking fiefdom of Madhok".
 * }
 * -- D Big X ray ᗙ  21:59, 17 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Keep per sources referred. Meets WP:SIGCOV. Notable party which has attracted enough academic publications.  Radhamadhab Sarangi   (Talk2Me&#124;Contribs) 17:13, 22 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Simply insisting that significant coverage exists is meaningless. Intellectually independent, substantive coverage of the organization that is actually the subject of this page needs to be demonstrated, and it simply hasn't been so far. Vanamonde (Talk) 19:42, 22 January 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.