Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Al-Shorta SC–Al-Zawraa SC rivalry


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. If Arabic-language sources from Iraq can later be produced to show that this is a notable rivalry, this decision can be revisited. Lankiveil (speak to me) 00:23, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

Al-Shorta SC–Al-Zawraa SC rivalry

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Apart from these two teams playing against each other fairly often and both being from Baghdad, I can't see any basis for this article. Rivalries are not inherently notable; see WP:NRIVALRY. Articles should be more than just regurgitating statistics; see WP:NOTSTATS. Furthermore, the source provided is from webs.com and is an unreliable blog; see WP:GNG. Spiderone 12:42, 19 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Iraq-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone  12:44, 19 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone  12:44, 19 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone  12:44, 19 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Spiderone  12:44, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

Here are some sources: Look at the third paragraph: "The crowds are amazing. It's a full house every time we play, and the biggest matches are the Shorta-Zawraa derbies. "Is the competitiveness of the historic rivalry coming to an end?" Translation: "Hassanin Mubarak urged me to travel the length and breadth of Iraq, including Baghdad where there are the four derby clubs of Iraq (Al-Shorta, Al-Quwa Al-Jawiya, Al-Talaba, Al-Zawraa), to see for myself how football was popular everywhere." Translation: "Given that the four derby teams of Baghdad (Al-Shorta, Al-Quwa Al-Jawiya, Al-Talaba, Al-Zawraa) are also the strongest four teams in the country, they were put in separate groups." Translation: "Al-Shorta began their defence of their Premier League title with a victory over Al-Zawraa in the derby match that took place in Al-Shaab Stadium." By the way, in Iraq, all matches between the 4 derby teams are played at Al-Shaab Stadium (the Iraqi equivalent of Wembley Stadium) instead of being played at the club's respective home grounds, which is further proof that these articles are about the biggest rivalries in the country. Hashim-afc (talk) 23:41, 19 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete - no evidence of notability. GiantSnowman 15:11, 19 November 2016 (UTC)
 * English interview by Nashat Akram from AFC Magazine: http://web.archive.org/web/20030122132623/http://iraqsport.com/articles/12/afc2_5.jpg
 * https://twitter.com/SoccerIraq/status/612729168560791552?lang=en-gb
 * https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=OWqXjcoONVgC&printsec=frontcover&dq=baghdad+football+club&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjtkquj4YDQAhVhOMAKHU9WC0UQ6AEIHjAA#v=snippet&q=shurta&f=false
 * http://www.alsabaah.iq/ArticleShow.aspx?ID=57431
 * I can't read Arabic but I'll assume good faith and trust your translations. If this does end up being kept, if you could put these in the article then it would be fantastic. I'll do so myself if I have the time. I don't think that the Twitter source is reliable, though. Spiderone  11:06, 20 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete - fails WP:NRIVALRY, no evidence of GNG. Simply because two teams play each other regularly does not create a de facto rivalry. Even if there is a rivalry, it has to be demonstrated that this has received significant, reliable coverage as a notion in itself, not simply the synthesis of a series of match reports. Fenix down (talk) 09:44, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I don't really know exactly what I have to do to stop these articles being deleted to be honest, I have given sources that show it's a derby match, how exactly do I prove that it receives significant coverage then? I can tell you for a fact that all matches between Shorta, Jawiya, Zawraa, Talaba receive significant coverage in Iraq, the media don't stop talking about these matches whenever they come around. That's why broadcasting channels like Al-Kass Sports Channel who are from Qatar not even from Iraq buys the rights to show these games. So I don't exactly know how I can prove these matches have significant coverage. Hashim-afc (talk) 18:50, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I've got no reason to doubt you. All I'll say is to try to bring forward more Arabic sources to back these facts up. I know it's not perfect but it's clear to see that Algiers Derby is notable from the article and a quick check of the sources included. Spiderone  19:15, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Comment The above discussion seems to demonstrate (I can't tell, as I don't read Arabic) that this rivalry is perhaps notable within Iraq as demonstrated within Arab-language sources. Is there any reason that ar:Al-Shorta SC–Al-Zawraa SC rivalry (or equivalent) would not be appropriate and likely more use to readers?  I know that in the past the other-than-English Wiki projects have sometimes been thought of as second-class destinations but for articles that are more likely to be searched-for and read in those languages it is a fully cromulent destination.  Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 16:19, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Randykitty (talk) 16:38, 6 December 2016 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  MBisanz  talk 12:35, 20 December 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.