Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Al Fateh (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

Al Fateh
The result was speedy keep. Nomination withdrawn. (non-admin closure) ‎__EXPECTED_UNCONNECTED_PAGE__ yaguzi (talk) 00:23, 10 December 2023 (UTC) AfDs for this article:


 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

This article overwhelmingly relies on uncited web pages of the Anti-Defamation League, a potentially partial source regarding the Israel-Palestine conflict (WP:RSPADL), and other generally unreliable sources such as MEMRI TV (WP:RSP). No sources that are unaffiliated with and/or non-supportive of Israel are cited, failing WP:UNDUE and WP:BALANCE. Its subject is not notable on its own and fails WP:N criteria; references to it on the internet consist entirely of biased sources, the reliability of which have not been established by WP:RSP, and no references in written sources exist; hence, no improvements to the article via additional references are possible. The article consists, barring the lede, exclusively of a 'Criticism' section, failing WP:CRIT. The only generally-reliable source cited, ADL, has since removed all references to the magazine from their website. Therefore, the existence of the magazine itself is unverifiable, and potentially a hoax (WP:HOAX). (proposed by Yaguzi) yaguzi (talk) 23:22, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Literature, Islam, Websites, Palestine,  and England.  WC  Quidditch   ☎   ✎  01:51, 9 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Keep The suggestion this is somehow a hoax does not bear even the slightest scrutiny. A quick WP:BEFORE search shows many works discussing this publication, e.g.:
 * Mozes and Weimann, The E-Marketing Strategy of Hamas (2009), Studies in Conflict & Terrorism (paywall)
 * IMPACT-E, Al-Fateh – The Hamas Web Magazine for Children: Incitement to Terror, Annihilation and Self-Destruction
 * Boaz Ganor, Katharina von Knop, Using the Internet for Terrorist Recruitment and Mobilization in Carlos A. M, Hypermedia Seduction for Terrorist Recruiting,
 * Many of the cites on the web page are more like blog-post pieces than mainstream journalism, but the suggestion that sources connected to Israel are inherently unreliable seems unsupportable. If there are pro-Al-Fateh reliable sources discussing this publication someone can add them to the article but false balance isn't balance either. Oblivy (talk) 04:14, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
 * If you take the time to scrutinize each of these sources, it becomes apparent that no non-internet based sources exist to support the fact that the magazine ever existed. The only link that the first article makes between Hamas and the magazine is as such:
 * "In this site the connection to the Hamas organization is the clearest. The Hamas logo and the operational division logo are both shown clearly."
 * If anything, this now-defunct website is not affiliated with a print magazine, and has questionable institutional links to Hamas. yaguzi (talk) 18:48, 9 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Keep. As pointed out above, no notability problem. WP:AFDISNOTCLEANUP does apply. gidonb (talk) 15:07, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
 * WP:GNG. What is pointed above does not address the notability problem, since the topic of this article is not covered in a reliable and independent source. Of the three sources cited above, the first two have been written with an genda in mind, the second is further unreliable given its publishing by a fringe 'research institution', IMPACT-SE, and the third merely makes trivial references in passing. The notability problem is made clear if you search for "Al Fateh" on any search engine, where it is clear that Wikipedia is the only prominent source, and that the name of this supposed magazine is shared by a football team, a basketball team, a mosque, a university, a hospital, the Arabic rendition of the honorific name for Mehmed II, and is simply a common word in Arabic. Furthermore, there seems to have been another magazine with an entirely different political ideology operating in Pakistan, according to this scholarly article. I do not think that renaming the article is a solution for this either, given the lack of notability as I have restated above. yaguzi (talk) 19:14, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
 * There is absolutely no need to argue with each participant in an AfD. In fact there is a strong recommendation against that. Rather, you should assume that each respondent has already read your intro and taken it into full consideration, ahead of doing their own due dilligence and reaching their conclusions. Some of the claims you made above are plainly wrong and fit into a wider scheme of unnescessary AfD nominations and creation of POVFORKs that tend to conincide with times of political tension. Here are a few good sources:
 * Mozes, Tomer; Weimann, Gabriel (2010). "The E-Marketing Strategy of Hamas". Studies in Conflict & Terrorism. 33 (3): 213–214. doi:10.1080/10576100903555762. S2CID 11112469
 * Weimann, Gabriel (2005). “Terrorist Dot Com: Using the Internet for Terrorist Recruitment and Mobilization”, in James Forest (Ed.), The Making of a Terrorist. Westport, CT: Praeger, pp. 53-65.
 * Goldman, Dudi (3 August 2008). "Hamas website: Kids, die for Allah". Ynet, Tel Aviv, Israel.
 * The article by Weimann has later been updated and the mention of the Al-Fateh website above is not in passing. Yediot Ahronot (with its portal Ynet) is Israel's most sold newspaper. There is more than sufficient SIGCOV, RS, and Independent coverage for the WP:GNG. The article is a legitimate WP:SPINOFF for the Hamas article. Gabriel Weimann is a fine academic and an authority in his field, Dudi Goldman a famous Israeli journalist. Goldman has an article at Hewiki and should have one here as well. Your nomination and the suggestion that this is a hoax are not serious and waste time for the WP community. Arguing with each participant worsens the impact. gidonb (talk) 23:45, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I must admit that I was unaware of the recommendation against replying, which I had attempted in good faith — I am not too used to deletion requests, as I usually like to add to Wikipedia.
 * Iin light of these more credible sources, I will update the article (and perhaps move it to "Al Fateh (magazine)", given my reasoning above), and close this discussion via speedy keep. yaguzi (talk) 00:20, 10 December 2023 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.