Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Al Jalaa Highrise


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. AfD nominator has decided "KEEP" with renaming, etc. I'm noting this as a keep/withdrawn. Please discuss/sort out renaming, article improvements - and if others desire, mergers and redirects - civilly on the talk page of the article. Thank you everyone. Missvain (talk) 03:14, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

Al Jalaa Highrise

 * – ( View AfD View log )

The building itself is only notable for having been bombed by the IDF as part of the 2021 Israel–Palestine crisis, and sources only discuss it in relation to that event. The material is covered perfectly adequately at 2021 Israel–Palestine crisis, and is better suited there rather than in a standalone article. A redirect to that section could possibly work too, though "Al Jalla Highrise" isn't really a name commonly used for the building (sources usually call it "al-Jalaa tower" or just "al-Jalaa building"). &#8209;&#8209;Volteer1 (talk) 07:56, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

Actually, Keep, but rename/refocus on the destruction itself. The destruction itself is clearly notable, and as time has gone on since my nomination there has been more to say about the event, and I think probably enough to warrant its own article rather than just a section in the 2021 Israel–Palestine crisis. &#8209;&#8209;Volteer1 (talk) 07:42, 26 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Palestine-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 07:57, 17 May 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete - change to Redirect to 2021 Israel–Palestine crisis or more specific page if it should be created. Per nom. Only one line in the article concerns the building outside of the bombing. If anything, a separate article on the bombing itself could be created, but I am not sure that is warranted, either.  ‡ Єl Cid of Valencia  talk  12:53, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete. Elishop (talk) 18:44, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Would you care to explain why? See WP:POLL  Vanilla  Wizard  💙 04:07, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Architecture-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 19:23, 17 May 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep I forked the article from the German one, apparently the building was one of the tallest in Gaza. Victor Grigas (talk) 23:26, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I think that might come from a misreading of: Israel has leveled a number of Gaza City’s tallest office and residential buildings, alleging they house elements of the Hamas military infrastructure. On Saturday, it turned to the 12-story al-Jalaa Building... The IDF levelled a 14-story building a bit less than a week ago, for instance, and I don't think being somewhat tall would really effect WP:NBUILDING. For reference, in Gaza City:  (note regarding emporis.com: the entries are verified to be correct, but they are nowhere near an expansive list, there are probably more than what is listed there - I think neither of these buildings were on this site, for instance) . &#8209;&#8209;Volteer1 (talk) 00:26, 18 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I don't think a building that is tall would make it notable, per WP:NBUILDING it must have enough source coverage, and other than that bombing there is clearly not enough coverage of RSes about the building itself. User3749 (talk) 13:09, 18 May 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep but rename to Destruction of Al Jalaa Highrise. The destruction of this building will have enduring notability. Reporters Without Borders, and others, are trying to take this case to the International Criminal Court and this alone will make the topic notable (regardless of whether Israeli actions are found by the court to be justified or not).VR talk 04:52, 18 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep but rename to Bombing of Al Jalaa Highrise or similar, and focus the article on the attack on the building and the reaction. BeŻet (talk) 09:25, 18 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete: No refs on the building itself, all were refs of the collapse. Even the image only shows the collapse, this is clearly non-notable. I think as this does not cover notability, this may need to be deleted, but we can also move it or redirect it to the section on the main page about the conflict. User3749 (talk) 12:43, 18 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Note - I have no issue with creating a Destruction of Al Jalaa Highrise or similarly titled page, and I think this page should redirect there. BUT I am not sure if, procedurally or logistically, it makes sense to simply move this page to that title. The topics are distinct and we can't just change lead to gold. So, I changed my vote to redirect (which I should have done in the first place, anyway). ‡ Єl Cid of Valencia  talk  12:46, 18 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete: The building itself was not notable before the strike. For now it's best to just keep it part of the general article on the conflict. If this turns into a major controversy warranting an article, we should make an article about the "al-Jalaa building strike" rather than the building itself.--RM (Be my friend) 19:53, 18 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep but rename/repurpose as proposed by some editors above, as it was the building's destruction (rather than the building itself) that received significant coverage from secondary sources. The article isn't off to a bad start, and it's too early to judge if the topic will lack enduring notability. If it turns out we jumped the gun and it will not be possible to develop the article any further, then it can be merged into another article in the future. Though my current preference is to keep the article, I can understand arguments for merging/redirecting, but not deletion.  Vanilla  Wizard </b> 💙 04:07, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep, but rename to reflect the event rather than the building. Dmarquard (talk) 05:00, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep. Not only notable as one out many buildings bombed: it also had notable tenants that are involved in the conflict as reporters that inform the public about the ongoing events. Nxavar (talk) 12:57, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm not against moving the page to a subsection of the "2021 Israel–Palestine crisis" article. Considering the length of the article on the main event, discussing this particular event in a separate article seems very appropriate. Nxavar (talk) 13:03, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Just merged the article's contents with those of the subsection. Nxavar (talk) 13:22, 19 May 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep Prominent incident. Make it an article about the attack and not the building itself. IRISZOOM (talk) 10:11, 20 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep, but rename to something along the lines of "Bombing of the Al-Jalaa building" or "Al-Jalaa bombing". Event is highly notable with extensive media coverage and international political reactions. 64.43.144.9 (talk) 13:31, 20 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep, but rename to something which mentions the bombing. The details around the back and forth about whether Hamas was present in the building are extensive enough to warrant their own article, I think. Serentty (talk) 21:19, 20 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep, but rename to something akin to Bombing of Al-Jalaa Tower as it meets WP:GNG due to it receiving significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject. If this is the direction the AfD goes (the page is renamed for the event) we can establish consensus on the name via a new poll. —  dain  omite   05:08, 21 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Merge with 2021 Israel-Palestine crisis: WP:1E means that the building fails WP:GNG. Better to move this information to the page about the crisis. Aasim (talk) 05:17, 21 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Actually WP:1E is about people, and people are supposed to have a biography. I think it is too much to apply this policy to buildings. Nxavar (talk) 10:09, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

Redirect to 2021 Israel–Palestine crisis, non-notable building only known for being bombed.--Geshem Bracha (talk) 09:01, 23 May 2021 (UTC) <div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Keep and move The building itself fails WP:GNG, but the destruction of it does, so I think it should be moved to a title which is reflective of the bombing, not just the highrise. codingcyclone   advisories/damages 06:45, 22 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep It was a significant incident. User:Moondragon21 19:59, 22 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete It is only notable for being bombed, which isn't near enough for its own page. Along with that, there isn't even a proper image of it, only one of the bombing. --Integer123 (talk) 14:33, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete The building fails GNG, and the bombing is better covered in the crisis article. Pretty much all of this is available in that article too. Like all things relating to that crisis, there is lots of media coverage on each event. We can't create a spinoff article for every building damaged in strikes, every person killed, every city attacked, etc, in the 2021 crisis. It's not even helpful for readers. All the content on this page is covered in there already. ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 00:39, 24 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep and rename - the bombing is itself notable, rendering moot the appeal to extreme argument that we cant have an article for every single damaged building. This specific bombing has been referred to the International Criminal Court, and Reporters Without Borders has called it a war crime. If other bombings meet the same notability and impact requirements then they too should have stand-alone articles. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap"> nableezy  - 02:06, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Missvain (talk) 23:40, 24 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Redirect. As a practical matter, the article was largely duplicative of the relevant section of 2021 Israel–Palestine crisis, so I resolved the few remaining differences and made everything but the lead a section transclusion. So where do we go from here? One option is we could split out the section in "2021 Israel–Palestine crisis". To me, the sections seems proportional to the article, so I don't think that is necessary. That leaves the other option, redirecting. If the building is notable, consider it a redirect with possibilities. If only the destruction is notable, then it's a redirect to the appropriate section of the larger topic. (We can't delete now, because we need to preserve the article history for attribution since content was copied to "2021 Israel–Palestine crisis".) It seems to me from the comments above that we might be able to get consensus for something like this? --Bsherr (talk) 13:08, 26 May 2021 (UTC)
 * The article on 2021 Israel–Palestine crisis is very large and covers many controversies. I do not see a reason why this must be a subsection. It is more fitting to present the details on a separate article and devote one or two sentences for the event where the subsection is now. Nxavar (talk) 07:48, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Because it adds like nothing new? It just dupes the existing article. This building is not individually notable. It's notable for being bombed, and almost anyone who cares will want to know the wider context. If you remove the cookie-cutter reactions and condemnations, the article is literally 2 paragraphs long and can never be expanded, and can be briefly summarised as "A building was bombed. The IDF claimed Hamas was operating out of it. It housed journalists from Al Jazeera and AP." Three sentences of actual information... ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 07:58, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
 * You forgot the reactions. That is the meat of the story. Nxavar (talk) 08:12, 31 May 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.