Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Albanian Resistance in Yugoslavia


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. I am persuaded by the arguments that WP:SYNTH is a fundamental problem in this article and that it warrants its deletion. Liz Read! Talk! 07:13, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Albanian Resistance in Yugoslavia

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

The bulk of the article actually discusses topics which already have articles of their own (Albanian–Yugoslav conflict, 1981 protests in Kosovo, Adem Jashari, Insurgency in Kosovo (1995–1998), and Kosovo War). Leaving all of that out, we are left with a text about a supposed plan by the Communist-era leader of Albania Enver Hoxha to invade Yugoslavia after Josip Broz Tito's death which never materialized; content that can easily be merged into the Hoxha article or another.

The bigger problem is that the article links up various events in Kosovo post-Cold war era and declares that they were all part of one conflict that lasted from 1948-1999 with the direct involvement of Albania. It's a WP:SYNTH of sources and likely WP:OR on the part of the creator. This is not how bibliography or sources generally treat the subject. The level of involvement on the part of the government of Albania in the push for Kosovo independence or unification with Albania is also disputed. Even one of the sources cited, Julie Mertus' Kosovo: How Myths and Truths Started a War, says that "If Albania was, as some Serbs suggest, helping Kosovo Albanians in 1981, that move would have been against Albanian policy. Albanian had indeed beamed its television and radio programs and sent books over the border to Kosovo, but it did little more to encourage Kosovo Albanians to "unite with the motherland".. never wanting to create tensions with Yugoslavia, Albania had even returned members of illegal Kosovar groups who had sought shelter within its borders." Albanian influence in these various matters is something that could be mentioned but doubtful as an umbrella article of its own. Griboski (talk) 22:50, 20 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Military and Albania. Shellwood (talk) 23:12, 20 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: History, Kosovo,  and Yugoslavia.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 09:43, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Enver Hoxha had many conflicts with Yugoslavia or with Tito, about whom you also said that Enver Hoxha didn't want anything to go into any conflict with Yugoslavia, then tell me why Enver Hoxha had many plans with Mehmet Shehu to found Kosovar Albanian rebels, about whom Enver Hoxha also knew that there were many Albanians in Kosovo who made attacks on the Yugoslavs and Enver Hoxha withdrew and did not support Tito. NormalguyfromUK (talk) 15:02, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Then to the protests in 1981 many Kosovo Albanian rebels like Nuhi Berisha and Rexhep Mala made attacks on Yugoslav policemen. Enver Hoxha supported their party and the Kosovars a lot during the crisis in Yugoslavia. Also because of this, Enver Hoxha made a plan to attack Yugoslavia during the 70 years in order to retake Kosovo. NormalguyfromUK (talk) 15:06, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Please read more carefully. The issue is whether this topic deserves a stand-alone article. The article is mostly a rehashing of already existing articles. And I was not stating my opinion, I was using one of the sources you cited which stated that Albanian involvement in the 1981 protests was meager. --Griboski (talk) 18:00, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I understand, however, there is no reason to delete the article. Maybe if we want, we could add tags to this article with More sources to improve, but I don't understand this as deletion. Resistance also existed and ended like that when the Kosovo war ended. You yourself agreed with me, Yes, many of the articles were also taken from the Wiki article, but this is part of the Resistance, I will add the main articles again. Even if it could be improved, deleting the article makes no sense to me! There were also several protests by Kosovar Albanians in Yugoslavia, which I would like to add to the Resistance. NormalguyfromUK (talk) 19:34, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
 * The situation is not a linear conflict that lasted from 1948-1999. You're also conflating two different things. On the one hand, you're talking about Kosovar Albanian resistance to the incorporation of Kosovo into Yugoslavia (which pre-dates 1948 btw) and on the other hand, the Government of Albania/Hoxha's covert attempts to secede Kosovo from Yugoslavia and unite it into Albania. IF the article is salvaged, it has to focus on a single topic. It's also much more complicated than "resistance", which implies there was an armed resistance throughout this period when in fact much of the Cold War period in Kosovo was marked by relative stability. The protests themselves were for different reasons with some merely seeking more rights. When creating an article, you have to make sure that it's a notable topic that's covered in reliable sources, is not original research, synthesis of sources or a WP:CONTENTFORK --Griboski (talk) 20:21, 21 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Comment -- There has been a longstanding nationalist movement in Kosovo, but how far this was promoted from Albania is doubtful. The militaries of many counties prepare plans (on paper) to invade their neighbours.  What plans Albania may have developed may be interesting, but such plans are generally NN. I remain dubious of the merits of this article, but am not formally voting.  Peterkingiron (talk) 13:42, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge -- In addition to the aforementioned pages, the content can also be merged into Greater Albania. As mentioned previously, the events listed in the article are not connected and one would be extremely hard-pressed to find any reliable sources connecting these events. The content can be recycled as there is nothing wrong with it. ElderZamzam (talk) 23:05, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete -- Upon review of the possible pages for a merger, I can not see a way in which the content can be merged in a coherent manner. ElderZamzam (talk) 21:16, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Star   Mississippi  02:23, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
 * This certainly seems to be a lot of improper synthesis. The 1981 stuff and beyond is especially jarring, because when I was reading sources about those protests, and a lot of them were Serbian, there was barely any mention of this kind of meddling by Albania. I remember recently reverting an edit like this at the protests article as well, I guess it spilled over... certainly I don't think it's appropriate that we talk in an encyclopedia about "plans" to attack Yugoslavia in the 80s in a B92 article that relays a Jutarnji list article. This is far enough in the past that we can require serious scholarly, historical sources, as opposed to this. The mention of Hoxha's November '82 speech is also weird, because the suppression of the protests started in April '81, and we have post mortem coverage from July '81. This needs to go. Albania–Yugoslavia relations can be as good as place as any to salvage the few paragraphs that make sense. --Joy (talk) 11:45, 22 February 2023 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Delete agree with Joy. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:11, 1 March 2023 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.