Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Albanian mafia (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   Keep (non-admin closure), as notability has been confirmed. Ecoleetage (talk) 00:23, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Albanian mafia
AfDs for this article: 
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Hi everyone I propose this article for complete deletion because:

-It is misrepresenting, misusing sources, and spewing anti-Albanian propaganda disguised as objective information on a subject that is scattered, arcane, controversial, and undefined. EVEN Belgian police acknowledge that only sensationalist reporting has led to fantasy depictions of the Albanian Mafia.

-If people want to write artcles about Albanian crimes, OK (do it in individual pages), but dont compile decades of individual, unconnected crimes in one article, to form a false image of an "Albanian Mafia". That is defamation. You can see that some of the main sources of this article are up to 25 years old, which further proves my point.

-There are several people vandalizing this article by changing original quotes and giving them a completely new meaning.

-Information is cherry picked.For many of the statements made in the article I can find other quotes saying just the opposite.

-Some information is flat out wrong. For example: The "Balkan Route" has NEVER accounted for 25-40% of the heroin smuggled into the US. That is not just a blatant lie and mis- interpretation, but also falsely implies that Albanians have been responsible for smuggling it, when in fact, especially at that time, the "Balkan Route" was mainly controlled by Serbian and Bulgarian groups.

-In the "history" section a pseudo background on the "Albanian Mafia" is given to justify the article. Albanian crime has nothing to do with the

"Kanun" or "traditional family-based clans". They commit crimes because of the poor financial situation in Albania and Kosovo. It does NOT have a "mafia" tradition like Italy. Implying that is ridiculous. Also, the original source is NOT the book "Gangs: A Journey into the heart of the British Underworld", as referenced, but the Serbian website www.serbianna.com, which has for a long time been spreading propaganda. I would appreciate if someone objective would take a look at the site and see for himself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Basey555 (talk • contribs) 23:18 20 August 2008


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Albania-related deletion discussions.   —• Gene93k (talk) 23:54, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Crime-related deletion discussions.   —• Gene93k (talk) 23:54, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep and cleanup. The long list of rationales mentioned by the nominator do not, by themselves, justify deletion. False claims within the article should be deleted but please not the entire article. --  Blanchardb - Me•MyEars•MyMouth - timed 00:35, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep While a part of the sources can be legitimately put in doubt, and should thus be removed, a considerable number are clearly OK: the US governmental sources, the Washington Post, the Independent, and Thompson's book. Certainly this article needs considerable editing, and more sources must be added, but it's hardly doubt that the papers speak a lot of it; and in Wikipedia we are not after the truth, but after reliable sources, and these don't miss: a simple search for "Albanian mafia" in the news archives turns out 315 sources, a lot of them passing the RS criteria, and also Google books provides quite a lot --Aldux (talk) 00:46, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

'''VANDALISM and the article being biased are main problems. If I just clean up the page, someone will restore everything again and again.Just in the last 2 days an unregistered member changed existing quotes several times, giving them a COMPLETELY new meaning.''' Also people add and delete material as they please, to fit their bias. The topic itself is highly controversial, it is not like the Italian Mafia. So if it not to be deleted for its wrong content, then I would like to propose it for deletion because of vandalism and bias. --Basey555 (talk) 01:08, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep and cleanup. Not only is "the page gets vandalized a lot" not a valid AFD criterion, it's completely rediculous. If we deleted every page that was vandalized, there wouldn't BE a Wikipedia. Rwiggum  (Talk /Contrib ) 01:13, 21 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Keep per Aldux and Rwiggum. Vandalism issues are not a reason for deletion. Maxamegalon2000 05:14, 21 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Keep as involved editor. The subject is notable. The term "albanian mafia" is used on at least one Interpol report in front of US Congress, one congressional report from the republican party, and it's used on several mainstream newspapers. The FBI talks about albanians working inside Balkan "mafias" and "albanian organized crime" (which is an alternate name on the lead), and have news about things like an "Albanian Organized Crime Ring"  and other obvious references to the topics dealt with on this article . Mind you, the article needs a good work-out. Also, individual crimes are not notable, but the organized crime phenomena by groups of albanians is notable. --Enric Naval (talk) 09:12, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep. Vandalism isn't a reason to delete. Stifle (talk) 14:00, 21 August 2008 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.