Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Albany Junior High School (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. No opposition to speedy renomination. SarahStierch (talk) 03:00, 12 December 2013 (UTC)

Albany Junior High School
AfDs for this article: 
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Advertising and doubtable notability The Banner talk 13:01, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions. &#9733;&#9734;  DUCK IS JAMMMY &#9734;&#9733; 13:36, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of New Zealand-related deletion discussions. &#9733;&#9734;  DUCK IS JAMMMY &#9734;&#9733; 13:36, 4 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Keep. If it was the first junior high school in New Zealand and its existence is controversial then it's notable. Where's the advertising? That's an utterly spurious claim for a start. How on earth can an article about a state school be advertising? -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:21, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep for the reasons cited in the first AfD, which remain valid. Article has multiple sources and is not advertising.  --Arxiloxos (talk) 16:22, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep - not advertising, "it was the first purpose built Junior High in New Zealand", and no reason why it cannot meet WP:ORG. Research and expansion is the way forward not deletion. Education to year/grade 10 indicates a high school. The Whispering Wind (talk) 19:45, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete or redirect to the article about the location. The relevant notability guideline, WP:ORG presently says (after some discussion on the talk page of the notability guideline) "All schools, including universities, colleges, high schools, middle schools, primary (elementary) schools, and schools that only provide a support to mainstream education must satisfy either this guideline or the general notability guideline, or both." Being "the first entity of its kind in New Zealand" is not a criterion found in WP:ORG or in WP:N, nor is being "controversial" . Granted,common outcomes of countless AFDs have been the keeping of high school and college articles, since the community of editors finds them to be inherently notable. or  alternatively to have a high likelihood of having the quantity and quality of references needed for notability. But the common outcome has been the merging/redirecting of primary school and middle school articles, when there is this little evidence of WP:ORG and WP:N being satisfied. Edison (talk) 00:15, 5 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep. To bring  this here after a previous overwhelming  'keep' discussion is purely  and simply  disruptive, time wasting, and pointy, as the nominator well knows. Perfectly  standard secondary school  but  the article has some bloated prose that  needs recasting and pruning  for encyclopedic quality,  but  otherwise proven to  exist and conforms to  the very  long  standing  precedent  for secondary schools that  can be evidenced through hundreds of AfD closed as keep. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 13:18, 5 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Common outcomes is not a reason for keeping, Kudpung. You know that well enough. The Banner talk 13:23, 5 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but that  precedent  is so old  and so strong that  it  can't  be ignored just  because you  don't  like it.. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 15:12, 5 December 2013 (UTC)
 * It is not a high school. It's a middle school, and WP:COMMONOUTCOMES says "Most elementary (primary) and middle schools that don't source a clear claim to notability get merged or redirected in AfD." The previous AFD was not much of a precedent to be citing as a Keep argument, with lots of hand-waving keep argument which were not based on the relevant notability guidelines "It's unusual and controversial" then "Keep per what he said" from several others, along with "It's the first of it's kind in that country" None of that satisfied the relevant notability guidelines, then or now.. This one also has several non-guideline based arguments. There is no clear reason why middle schools in New Zealand should be kept and ones in the US should be redirected.  Does it have multiple reliable and independent sources with significant coverage? WP:ORG also requires national coverage; are the new sources covering this school considered national?  The NZ Herald is in the same city as the school, so it might be functioning as a local news source and thus might not reflect national importance, even in a relatively small nation, smaller than 25 US states and 10 US cities. Edison (talk) 20:42, 5 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Comment - I'm a strong believer in the established consensus that pieces on all but the most exceptional elementary schools should be redirected to their school district or other governing entity. That said, I think there is a case to be made here that as the "first junior high in New Zealand" this particular school does have a notability hook. Carrite (talk) 05:20, 6 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Comment: I'm not  sure how the overlap  between NZ and US middle schools compares. Grade 10 is a legal  school  leaving  age in  most  countries. In  the UK there are still  a few counties toperatinga three tier system with  the middle sschool  being  something  for 10 -  14 year olds. Grade 10 is, I  believe still  the legal  school  leaving  age, while gredes 11 and 12 of the high  schools are often call  'Sixth form  colleges' where students prepare mainly  for university  entrance. So  the confusion  is when is a secondary  school  a high school, or a junior high,  or a middle school. I've always considered secondary school  and high school  to  be coterminus (but  not  middle school). Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 07:12, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
 * According to our Secondary education article, New Zealand counts "secondary education" as from years 9 to 13. Albany Junior High School serves years 7-10, so I guess this is in between a middle and a high school. Some editors may argue that since the schools serves a form of secondary education (years 9 and 10), it falls under the blanket notability given to all secondary schools. Michaelzeng7 (talk) 00:13, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Years 7 to 10 in New Zealand equate to Grades 6 to 9 in the US. Also, around a third (104 out of 336) of New Zealand secondary schools now start at Year 7 rather than Year 9. Lcmortensen (mailbox) 11:32, 7 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Redirect Claims of controversy are overstated and outdated, therefore fails WP:NOTNEWS. As it is not a High School, it fails GNG. Incidentally, it is not advertising, just poorly written by someone unacquainted with the concept of an encyclopedia. DerbyCountyinNZ (Talk Contribs) 07:03, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.