Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Albert Okura


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. Black Kite (talk) 21:49, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

Albert Okura

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Promotional article on minor chain. The only possibly acceptable reference is the LA Times, and it reads like a press release. The WP article itself is just as much of a press release, and I don;t think there would be enough content for an acceptable article here. .  DGG ( talk ) 02:45, 8 September 2014 (UTC)
 * How, exactly, does Robert Okura's article in the LA Times ("Destiny in the desert"}read like a press release? It's a featured, Column One article about his attempt to save the town of Amboy, California. Wikipedia's own description of what an  Column One article is: "One of the Times's features is "Column One," a feature that appears daily on the front page to the left-hand side. Established in September 1968, it is a place for the weird and the interesting; in the How Far Can a Piano Fly? (a compilation of Column One stories) introduction, Patt Morrison writes that the column's purpose is to elicit a "Gee, that's interesting, I didn't know that" type of reaction."


 * He was also featured in another LA Times article in the Region & State section about his purchase of the location of the original McDonald's in San Bernardino, started by the restaurant's namesakes -- Dick and Mac McDonald -- in 1948, "A Loving Shrine to McDonald's That McDonald's Shuns". I believe I had a citation to this story, but it's no longer in the article. Also, please note that both articles have bylines. National newspapers, like the LA Times, as a matter of policy, do not put bylines on press releases.


 * I also take opposition to your description of his chain of restaurants as "minor." At my count Juan Pollo has 26 locations and as a business owner of this "minor" chain, he's been featured and interviewed on Marketplace, a highly respected business radio show produced by American Public Media and carried by many public radio stations. See: Entrepreneur channels San Bernardino's history and The economy bypasses San Bernardino. Again, I believed I had these sources cited in the article, but they appear to be gone. While not all of his citations are from national media outlets, the fact that he's been included in two of them, and three of those articles (one of them on the front page of the LA Times) are specifically about him, his so-called minor chain and his work to restore Route 66.


 * To keep things easier to manage, here's a list of sources from national media outlets that I mentioned above:


 * From page one, column one of the LA Times, January 17, 2007, by Mike Anton
 * "A Loving Shrine to McDonald's That McDonald's Shuns" From the Region & State section of the LA Times, by Hugo Martin
 * Entrepreneur channels San Bernardino's history Aired on October 18, 2012, by David Weinberg, 3:35 package
 * The economy bypasses San Bernardino Aired on July 18, 2012, by Adriene Hill, 2:12 package


 * I know of few restauranteurs and business owners who can say they've had the same kind of coverage, especially in a competitive media market like Los Angeles. I also need to reiterate -- these are not press releases.DependableSkeleton79 (talk) 03:59, 8 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep The article is well sourced and the subject has attracted independent notability. Virtually all of the references meet WP:THIRDPARTY and well exceed the recommended minimum of two. The Los Angeles Times article is clearly a Human Interest story and in no way resembles a press release.009o9 (talk) 05:20, 8 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete. Until a few days ago, we had three different articles (Albert Okura, Juan Pollo, and Albert Okura: The Chicken Man with a 50 Year Plan. I redirected the latter (on a totally non-notable self-published book) to this article, so that leaves only two, but they are very redundant (the Juan Pollo article is, in fact, completely about Okura). The sourcing is basically identical, very local (yes, I know, the LA Times, but in their local section), and most of it is rather trivial (short snippets on a local radio station). I strongly doubt that there is enough sourcing for even one article, but two different articles is, without any doubt whatsoever, overdone. --Randykitty (talk) 12:55, 8 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of California-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 12:59, 8 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Food and drink-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 12:59, 8 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Businesspeople-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 12:59, 8 September 2014 (UTC)
 * I once again point out that Okura was profiled on the front page in column one of the LA Times ("Destiny in the desert" From page one, column one of the LA Times, January 17, 2007, by Mike Anton) and that the "short snippets" you dismiss from a "a local radio station" are in fact complete news packages coming in at least two minutes from Marketplace, a nationally syndicated public radio program. (Entrepreneur channels San Bernardino's history Aired on October 18, 2012, by David Weinberg, 3:35 package, The economy bypasses San Bernardino Aired on July 18, 2012, by Adriene Hill, 2:12 package}}.) First the sources -- including the LA Times front page story -- are dismissed as all being press releases and now the media sources are being dismissed despite my explanation of the relevance and national reach of the programming. DependableSkeleton79 (talk) 17:57, 8 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete - It has been covered by RandKitty already, but I will say this - the coverage cited falls under WP:Routine and because of it the article does not meet the standards of inclusion. The argument made DependableSkeleton relies on the mistaken belief that because the source is reliable, the material cited to it is automatically reliable as well. that is not the case. Many of these sources are biographical fluff pieces that do not meet the same editorial standards as news pieces, as such they should be discounted. Other sources fall under WP:Significant - they are not about the individual himself, but are about an other subject in which he chimes in or is mentioned and as such the do not establish anything beyond WP:Verifiability. These things taken together mean that the article falls short of the standards of inclusion. As I also understand it, WP:BLP requires substantially more than these types of sources as well for these type of articles. (I do not work in too many biographies, so my knowledge of them is rudimentary at best.)--Jeremy (blah blah • I did it!) 18:29, 8 September 2014 (UTC)
 * How is the purchase of a town (in this case, Amboy, California "Destiny in the desert"), routine? If it's "puffery", why did the editors of the LA Times decide it was worthy of front page, column one coverage -- which is a fact that I'm finding strange that it's constantly ignored, despite Wikipedia's own entry on the LA Times describing what a "column one" story is. How is the purchase of the original McDonald's -- which was founded by the original McDonald's brothers ("A Loving Shrine to McDonald's That McDonald's Shuns") -- "routine"? From what I've read of WP:Routine, neither of these stories can be classified as such. DependableSkeleton79 (talk) 21:23, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

Going through this page, I believe that I may not have established Albert Okura's notability in the introduction. I've drafted a new introduction (please note that I have not posted it). I believe this will clearly establish his contributions preserve the history of California.

Albert Okura is the founder and CEO of the Juan Pollo restaurant chain in Southern California. He is also a philanthropist and is active in the revitalization of Historic Route 66. In 2005, Okura purchased the town of Amboy, California, which is located along Route 66. The corporate headquarters for the Juan Pollo chain now sits on the original location of the first McDonald's restaurant. DependableSkeleton79 (talk) 22:25, 8 September 2014 (UTC) 
 * Keep I think the sources are sufficient to establish him as notable. The section about the town of Amboy could be expanded. The article Juan Pollo should be redirected to this article since he is more notable than the chain is, and the Juan Pollo article is mostly about him anyway. --MelanieN (talk) 03:21, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, NorthAmerica1000 02:17, 16 September 2014 (UTC)


 * I was aware of the Route 66 effort and the purchase of the town well before I encountered the article. The proposed new lead (above) would pull the article together nicely. I'm still a Keep vote. 009o9 (talk) 02:41, 16 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Keep The article has three sources that are primarily about Albert Okura:  Albert Okura passes Notability, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject". Cunard (talk) 09:53, 22 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Added to the KCET and The San Bernardino Sun sources, this article from the Los Angeles Times and this report from Marketplace (radio program) also provide substantial coverage of the subject. He clearly passes Notability. Cunard (talk) 10:06, 22 September 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.