Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Aleks Susak


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. There are a number of sources presented, and clearly the subject meets WP:V, but the consensus here is that the sources are mostly low-quality (blogs, etc) and/or simple mentions. There is not the depth of coverage in high-quality WP:RS to establish WP:N. -- RoySmith (talk) 23:27, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

Aleks Susak

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Subject does not meet general notability requirements. Meatsgains (talk) 17:39, 11 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Hi, Aleks Susak is a well known designer in Canada. Her clothing is worn by many local celebrities. Hope this helps. Abonzz — Preceding unsigned comment added by Abonzz (talk • contribs) 17:48, 11 February 2018 (UTC)  — Note to closing admin: Abonzz (talk • contribs)  is the creator of the page that is the subject of this AfD.
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. The Mighty Glen (talk) 19:24, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Artists-related deletion discussions. The Mighty Glen (talk) 19:24, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. The Mighty Glen (talk) 19:24, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Fashion-related deletion discussions. The Mighty Glen (talk) 19:24, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Canada-related deletion discussions. The Mighty Glen (talk) 19:24, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Ontario-related deletion discussions. The Mighty Glen (talk) 19:24, 11 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Huffington Post, La Presse, and Hello Canada references were added, in addition to to Globe and Mail. Also last citation was added as requested. The clothing line is being worn and seen by Canada's fashion elite even though the line is relatively new. A Susak jumpsuit worn by the prime minister's wife at the 2016 Pride parade in Vancouver was seen all over Canada.  (see:  https://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/fashion-and-beauty/fashion/why-sophie-gregoire-trudeau-is-on-a-mission-to-expose-true-canadian-style/article35461231) The clothes were shown in well known Canadian fashion magazines (see : https://fashionmagazine.com/search/?q=aleks+susak)  Thank-you for your time. Abonzz (talk  —Preceding undated comment added 20:24, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Huffington Post is not a reliable source. The fact that there are a couple articles that mention her in one sentence of the article is of no help whatsoever. See WP:GNG. She's not notable. Also, please disclose any connection you may have to her.104.163.148.25 (talk) 21:30, 11 February 2018 (UTC)


 * The Huffington Post has won a Pulitzer so is it possible to explain why it isn't reliable? Couldn't the amount of times the clothes are seen in magazines, etc be counted as notability? And zero connection to subject. Thanks Abonzz
 * Please sign your posts, you can read about how to do it here. Also, if you want to write articles that "stick", you need to understand reliable sources and notability. Basically there have to be published independent stories that are in-depth. For this person, the reporting is all very minor name checking, so she fails the notability test. It's your responsibility to read and understand those policies. Arguing every single little statement by other editors will get you nowhere as you clearly have not read and understood those policies.104.163.148.25 (talk) 21:45, 12 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm genuinely not seeing where there's been a Huffington Post source added to this article at all — and I've checked the edit history as well, so it's not that it got added and then removed, but rather it's that if you intended to add a Huffington Post citation you forgot to actually do it. At any rate, The Huffington Post is kind of a borderline source — it's more reliable than the average Blogspot blog, so it can be used for some additional confirmation of facts, but its content still consists principally of bloggers who are given latitude to write about anything or anybody they want to, so it's not a source that could carry notability all on its own if it were the best source on offer. So, in a nutshell, we'd need to actually see the HuffPo source before we could evaluate how much it helps. And neither The Globe and Mail nor La Presse is helping, either, because both articles just namecheck Aleks Susak's existence within coverage of Sophie Grégoire Trudeau, and neither of them is about Aleks Susak. Passing GNG requires media coverage in which Susak is substantively the subject of the source, not just media coverage of other people which happens to passingly mention that Susak exists. Bearcat (talk) 22:19, 17 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Speedy Delete DeleteNumerous sources only mention her in one sentence. Entirely lacks in-depth coverage required for notability.104.163.148.25 (talk) 21:27, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Failure of notability guidelines is not a valid reason for speedy deletion per point 5 of WP:NOTCSD. Linguist un Eins uno 21:59, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Right you are! I was mixing up the "speedy k*ep" language of AfD's with the speedy del*te language.104.163.148.25 (talk) 21:37, 12 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete. Seems to be fanpage. No real RS. Agricola44 (talk) 13:31, 12 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Text was originally added to establish notability. Is it possible to point out exactly what makes it sound like a fanpage so changes can be made? Thanks Abonzz
 * Please sign your posts, you can read about how to do it here.104.163.148.25 (talk) 21:41, 12 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Keep Has received significant coverage from secondary sources. I noticed sometimes her name is spelled "Alex Susak." Lonehexagon (talk) 04:30, 13 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Those are not significant coverage. The first is an interview (not WP:RS( and the second is two paragraphs in total.104.163.148.25 (talk) 07:45, 13 February 2018 (UTC)
 * It's true that one of the sources includes an interview, but that is not the full article. Both sources include significant discussion about her. According to WP:SIGCOV, "Significant coverage is more than a trivial mention, but it does not need to be the main topic of the source material." Lonehexagon (talk) 18:45, 13 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Here's the entirety of what you are referring to as "significant coverage" in the interview article in Urbanology: "Pattern, colour and bold prints are the driving force behind up and coming designer Aleks Susak’s eclectic and sophisticated collections. Transitioning from marketing to fashion design was simple for the former model. After all, her mother Mila is an artist and was able to assist her creative visions along the way. With having years of experience working in the fashion and television industry to her advantage, as well as a unique personal sense of style, Susak channeled her inner fashionista into creating a collection for the sophisticated and fashion-conscious woman. Debuting her official self-titled clothing line with her Spring/Summer 2015 collection, the budding designer takes on the androgyny of the peacock and gentleness of the butterfly to mold her bright and daring pieces."
 * and here's the other source you say is significant:

"Elegant, feminine, and chic – this is what Canadian womenswear designer Aleks Susak‘s Fall/Winter 2017-2018 collection is. Sophisticated and graceful styles, glamorous and fashionable looks, tasteful combinations were presented on the runway at the Windsor Arms Hotel this September. European national wear inspired Aleks to create these looks, making hand-embroidered components on select collection pieces a central feature. As she states, ‘every collection strives to provide a fresh, modern and feminine take on dressing the modern woman‘.

Famous for her hand-painted silk garments, Aleks Susak has gained popularity among top Canadian celebrities and public figures. Helping women express their individuality and femininity, Aleks creates timeless pieces, experimenting with different fabrics and incorporating artistic touches, which are always common themes in every collection – whether pieces are hand-painted, hand-embroidered, or other. Her collections feature ‘the full spectrum of colours, and each colour stands out on its own, especially when accentuated by a particular cut or model‘.

Though designing clothes is what Aleks loves to do, she is also excited about ‘branching out into accessories‘. This will be a whole new level for the brand, and we cannot wait to see it!" 104.163.148.25 (talk) 19:27, 13 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Per WP:SIGCOV, "Significant coverage is more than a trivial mention, but it does not need to be the main topic of the source material." Both those cases are more than a trivial mention, and she is the main topic of the source material. The complete articles also include an interview and dozens of pictures of her designs. Lonehexagon (talk) 02:47, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
 * That's funny. Two paragraphs about how she helps "women express their individuality and femininity" is the definition of trivial (as in lacking substance) coverage. Interviews and photographs are also not reliable sources. 104.163.148.25 (talk) 08:41, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
 * She is a clothing designer. The coverage is about how she designs clothing. When you say her coverage "is the definition of trivial" I feel this may be coming from a WP:JUSTDONTLIKEIT rationale as opposed to a close read of the Wikipedia guidelines. If you look at WP:SIGCOV, an example of trivial coverage is this: "Martin Walker's statement, in a newspaper article about Bill Clinton,[1] that 'In high school, he was part of a jazz band called Three Blind Mice' is plainly a trivial mention of that band." The coverage here is specifically about Susak and her work, and contains far more than a trivial mention of her. Lonehexagon (talk) 13:47, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I think you're fundamentally misunderstanding SIGCOV. The example they give there is "The book-length history of IBM by Robert Sobel is plainly non-trivial coverage of IBM." The material above is likewise trivial as it imparts a trivial amount of information about the designer. it does not say much more than the fact that she designs dresses. That's trivial coverage, lacking depth etc. Everything you have brought up as evidence of RS is incorrect, so let's agree to disagree.104.163.148.25 (talk) 16:20, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
 * If someone could hat this exchange it would probably be useful to other readers.104.163.148.25 (talk) 16:21, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I will agree to disagree, but I would like to point out the facts that were stated in those articles, which I believe amount to significant coverage for a designer:


 * Susak is a Canadian fashion designer who used to be a model. Her mother Mila is an artist and helps her with design. Before becoming a designer she had years of experience working in the fashion and television industry. Her clothes target "sophisticated and fashion-conscious woman" and have been worn by public figures and celebrities. She is known for hand-painting and hand-embroidering her clothing. She has recently announced she will start making accessaries in addition to clothes.
 * Career
 * Susak's first clothing line was a self-titled Spring/Summer 2015 clothing collection which features androgyny, with patterns and bright colors that are reminiscent of a butterfly or peacock. Her Fall/Winter 2017-2018 collection is based on "European national wear" and has been called "Elegant, feminine, and chic" and was presented on the runway at the Windsor Arms Hotel in September 2017. Her previous collections were highly regarded for using painted silk, and a central feature of the Fall/Winter 2017-2018 collection is hand-embroidered components. The article then goes on to showcase her work. Lonehexagon (talk) 17:04, 14 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Additional source Here are other sources discussing her work.  Lonehexagon (talk) 19:54, 14 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Those are extremely poor sources. I encourage you to have a look at WP:RS. The first Fusia source is copied from Wikipedia. The second Vitaandmoda source is a blog, (non-RS) and the third is a single person publishing a web page, aka a blog. See the contact page where she says "If you have any questions, ideas, suggestions, job offers or even advice please contact me at xyz@ somethign com" As an example, a set of reliable sources would be a profile in the Toronto Star, another in the Globe and Mail, and one or two others. That would cut it, but all we have for this person is very minor mentions. Minor=trivial. 104.163.148.25 (talk) 05:39, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I agree to disagree. I feel like it's well-established that she's notable as a designer with enough coverage to create an article about her. Lonehexagon (talk) 18:56, 15 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete. Fashion designers are not automatically presumed notable just because they exist, but the sources being shown here are not reliable ones for the purposes of getting her over WP:GNG: they are blogs and a piddling Canadian National Enquirer knockoff, not reputable media outlets that count as reliable sources for Wikipedia content. And it's not enough to just assert that she's recognized as a major designer, either — the depth and breadth of reliable source coverage available about her has to attest to her purported majorness. Bearcat (talk) 18:26, 17 February 2018 (UTC)


 * New sources were added to the Susak page : Canadian Living magazine, LZXY magazine and Toronto City Life. Here is the Huffington Post article that begins with a description of the Susak outfit: http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/08/02/sophie-gregoire-trudeau-vancouver-pride_n_11305254.html Thanks Abonzz (talk) 17:35, 18 February 2018 (UTC)
 * That Huffington Post article definitely doesn't assist notability, then. It's not about Aleks Susak, but merely mentions Aleks Susak in the process of being about Sophie Grégoire Trudeau — which cuts no ice toward making Aleks Susak notable. And none of the other new sources you've added to the article help either — City Life and LXRY are blogs, not reliable or notability-supporting sources, and the Canadian Living piece is, yet again, a mere mention of Aleks Susak's existence in a blurb about Sophie Grégoire Trudeau. None of these sources are showing what's required — as I already said, we're not looking for coverage of other people which happens to mention Aleks Susak's name, we're looking for coverage about Aleks Susak herself. She has to be the subject of a source, not just a name present in sources about other subjects, before that source assists in demonstrating her notability, and those sources have to be reliable media outlets and not blogs — so we're still at exactly zero notability-assisting sources. Bearcat (talk) 17:21, 19 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Keep, seems to be notable enough for inclusion. Featured in magazine and news articles.--Z oupan 23:46, 18 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Being "featured in" magazine and news articles is not a notability pass. Being the subject of newspaper and magazine articles is what's required, and none of the sources being shown here are doing that. Bearcat (talk) 17:21, 19 February 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.