Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Aleksandr Tillo


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎__EXPECTED_UNCONNECTED_PAGE__. No unstruck keeps remain. Vanamonde (Talk) 18:30, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Aleksandr Tillo

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Doesn't meet WP:NOLYMPICS and a WP:BEFORE didn't produce much more. He placed not so good in single men events. In team events he had better results. Paradise Chronicle (talk) 19:56, 24 April 2023 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Less Unless (talk) 11:18, 3 May 2023 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗  plicit  13:05, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Olympics,  and Russia. Paradise Chronicle (talk) 19:56, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
 * The Ukrainian, Russian, and Polish wikipedias each have more detailed biographies on him - it seems he was an important military person and this is arguable sigcov. BeanieFan11 (talk) 20:04, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Per the UK wiki, it seems he was awarded the Order of St. Stanislav 3rd degree (1906); Order of St. Anna, 3rd degree (1911); Order of St. Stanislav, 2nd degree (January 1915); Order of St. Anna, 2nd degree with swords (January 10, 1915); and Order of St. Volodymyr 4th degree with swords and bow (November 8, 1916) – not sure of the significance of any of these. BeanieFan11 (talk) 20:07, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
 * These are all awards are routine and tied into status in the Russian table of ranks.  // Timothy :: talk  05:23, 18 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment It may be worth checking Newspapers.com. QuicoleJR (talk) 20:47, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately Newspapers.com doesn't have any Russian papers. BeanieFan11 (talk) 20:54, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, however, it may have English newspapers commenting on their Olympic appearances. QuicoleJR (talk) 00:06, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I checked, but nothing came up. It was pretty rare that foreign athletes were in-depth covered by US papers back then. BeanieFan11 (talk) 00:40, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep - the article should not be deleted because the person is clearly notable as demonstrated in the Russian version of the article listing that Tillo received several highest state orders of honour of the Russian Empire. However, it should be substantially reworked to properly demonstrate the subject's notability.ThegaBolt (talk) 15:29, 29 April 2023 (UTC) sock strike JoelleJay (talk) 01:16, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
 * For reference, is his Wikidata item. See links in other language via that. BhamBoi (talk) 02:37, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
 * The awards he received were the highest honors in the Russian Empire? BeanieFan11 (talk) 19:50, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CycloneYoris talk! 08:39, 18 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep: the articles and cited sources in Polish, Ukrainian and Russian make clear that a good article could be written here: Tillo's military career and fate as a victim of the Purges can be included alongside his sporting career. I count at least three different cited sources across those three languages, so the subject ought to meet WP:GNG. UndercoverClassicist (talk) 13:37, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep: Agreed with UndercoverClassicist. It has cited sources in Polish, Russian, and Ukrainian. CastJared (talk) 17:39, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete Fails GNG and BIO. Sources in the article are not SIGCOV. This is a database bio. References in Polish Wikipedia are all database records; Ukrainian Wikipedia has a database record and a 404 dead link; Russian wikipedia has two database sources (including one mentioned above).  // Timothy :: talk  05:34, 18 May 2023 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Neutral: I take User:TimothyBlue's point that the sources do not necessarily establish notability, despite the substantial information that some of them contain. I'm not quite ready to call delete, since I don't have the means to check for sources in Russian, and the numerous ways in which Tillo was potentially notable suggest that he probably pops up in a number of sources on different topics, but I recognise that I don't have much other than "there must be sources" on which to base that opinion. It would be very helpful if someone able to search in Russian or Ukrainian would take a look. UndercoverClassicist (talk) 09:16, 18 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Neutral: I agreed with TimothyBlue's point. It doesn't have the notability yet. CastJared (talk) 10:41, 18 May 2023 (UTC)
 * So what makes you not vote for delete? Or are you just following UndercoverClassicist, voting for keep when the user did and now striking your original vote and now voting for neutral according to the user? Timothytyy (talk) 04:49, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't think that the grwar.ru source can just be discounted like that. When I think of database entry, I think of something like this, with little information overall besides very basic statistical details. In this case, the source has substantial details about him that could be used to write a decent biography (lists a bunch of awards, the dates he received them, his religion, where he lived, where he attended school, when he received military promotions, what he did after the military, how he died, etc.). I would argue this to be significant coverage. BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:15, 18 May 2023 (UTC)
 * The problem is more whether it qualifies as fully secondary within the meaning of the GNG: sites which automatically harvest data for all members of a given, not-inherently-notable category may be suitable to cite for facts, but can't establish notability by themselves, since the fact that the subject is included in the database doesn't mean that a human being has decided that they're notable (only that they fit the category). A similar system is adopted for IMDB: you can cite IMDB to tell you that an actor was in a film, but the fact that the actor is mentioned or has a page on on IMDB doesn't really count towards GNG, because IMDB fairly indiscriminately presents information on everyone associated with films, and we don't consider that people are notable simply for clearing that bar. UndercoverClassicist (talk) 16:05, 18 May 2023 (UTC)
 * IMDb is used as external links only. CastJared (talk) 12:58, 21 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete. Agreed with Timothy and UndercoverClassicist above. I'm not seeing any SIGCOV in RS. GRWar is a self-published blog by a non-expert, and anyway that source indiscriminately scrapes various primary military lists (all the post-war activity is taken directly from this website that eulogizes 4,000 victims in Leningrad of NKVD Order no. 00447), it's not secondary prose coverage. I think if there was actual coverage of Tillo's military career in Russian sources, Likhotvorik would have included it; the fact that the only material here is routine data available for every WWI troop/troika target indicates his military activities were not particularly noteworthy. JoelleJay (talk) 21:59, 18 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete, per JoelleJay and TimothyBlue. BilledMammal (talk) 02:40, 28 May 2023 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.