Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Alex Ozols (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was speedy delete‎__EXPECTED_UNCONNECTED_PAGE__ per G5. See Sockpuppet investigations/Anne Barrington. Dreamy Jazz talk to me &#124; my contributions 13:47, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Alex Ozols
AfDs for this article:


 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Fails WP:GNG. Synthesizing a lot of news reports about non-notable cases a lawyer represented does not WP:SIGCOV make. Nothing in the references is about Ozols, besides directory listings. ~ A412  talk! 19:39, 7 January 2024 (UTC)


 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Law,  and California. ~  A412  talk! 19:39, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Canada-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 20:08, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

Hi, I have recently created a page for the lawyer Alex Ozols. I understand your concern about the perceived lack of notability in the referenced cases and the absence of information about Ozols in the references. I would appreciate it if you could take the time to review the references more closely, as you'll find instances where the cases are indeed notable, and Ozols has been mentioned in reputable sources and TV news for his significant contributions. He is widely recognized for his legal expertise, particularly in high-profile cases involving individuals such as San Diego business executive Gina Champion-Cain, Cruz Marcelino Velazquez Acevedo, Marine Gunnery Sgt. Pablo Cortes, and Tieray Jones. Please refer to the sources listed below for your thorough review:


 * https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sdut-smuggle-mexico-totoaba-fish-bladder-restitution-2013nov03-story.html
 * https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-xpm-2014-jan-02-la-me-ln-marine-shooting-20140102-story.html
 * https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/courts/sd-me-jones-lawyers-20161222-story.html
 * https://timesofsandiego.com/uncategorized/2016/12/22/man-accused-2002-death-stepson-gets-new-attorney/
 * https://truecrimedaily.com/2017/01/27/stepdad-charged-in-2002-murder-of-2-year-old-jahi-turner/
 * https://www.courthousenews.com/mystery-remains-in-hearing-on-toddlers-disappearance/
 * https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/jahi-turner-tieray-jones-dna-recording-phone-call-san-diego/124309/
 * https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sdut-ex-husband-pleads-guilty-service-dog-theft-2016mar15-story.html
 * https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/district-attorneys-office-identified-the-wrong-man-how-that-mistake-could-ruin-his-life-forever/1966215/
 * https://www.10news.com/news/team-10/man-says-he-was-charged-with-a-crime-he-didnt-commit
 * https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/veterans-missing-service-dog-wasnt-stolen-ex-husband/2020282/
 * https://www.cbs8.com/article/news/service-dog-stolen-from-vista-found-in-texas/509-c1eba849-ee10-410b-b888-c1a36256d6f4
 * https://www.bet.com/article/ie80po/surveillance-footage-shows-teen-drinking-liquid-meth
 * https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/gina-champion-cain-accused-loan-fraud-san-diego-business-investor/1964290/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Schounrich (talk • contribs) 11:32, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
 * — Schounrich (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.


 * Keep There is no apparent justification for the claim that Alex Ozols lacks notability. He contributes regularly to various news outlets, with credible sources, including, providing ample biographical information. Putting aside specific details, Ozols is a legal analyst on national TV media, backed by legitimate citations from national newspapers. A comparative review of American media commentators and lawyers meeting Wikipedia's standards reveals that Ozols is on par with many listed individuals. I am open to enhancing the article to comply with Wikipedia's guidelines and seek guidance for constructive contribution, emphasizing the need for consistent standards to maintain the platform's credibility. I am receptive to improving the article based on your suggestions for a collaborative and mutually beneficial effort.Carindem (talk) 10:22, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
 * — Carindem (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.


 * Keep I appreciate your attention to the notability assessment of Alex Ozols. Contrary to the suggestion that the references provided fail to meet WP:GNG, I would like to emphasize that Alex Ozols, a notable lawyer, has garnered substantial coverage in reputable news outlets and made several television appearances. These references extend beyond mere directory listings, providing a comprehensive view of his legal expertise. I am more than willing to offer a detailed breakdown of Mr. Ozols's notable cases and achievements, along with corresponding references, to demonstrate the depth of his impact on the legal field. You can find some of the links below that can verify the notability of Alex Ozols.


 * https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/veterans-missing-service-dog-wasnt-stolen-ex-husband/2020282/
 * https://www.cbs8.com/article/news/service-dog-stolen-from-vista-found-in-texas/509-c1eba849-ee10-410b-b888-c1a36256d6f4
 * https://timesofsandiego.com/uncategorized/2016/12/22/man-accused-2002-death-stepson-gets-new-attorney/
 * https://truecrimedaily.com/2017/01/27/stepdad-charged-in-2002-murder-of-2-year-old-jahi-turner/
 * https://www.courthousenews.com/mystery-remains-in-hearing-on-toddlers-disappearance/
 * https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-xpm-2014-jan-02-la-me-ln-marine-shooting-20140102-story.html
 * https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/courts/sd-me-jones-lawyers-20161222-story.html
 * https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/jahi-turner-tieray-jones-dna-recording-phone-call-san-diego/124309/
 * https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sdut-ex-husband-pleads-guilty-service-dog-theft-2016mar15-story.html Pierrestik (talk) 10:32, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
 * — Pierrestik (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

Stellarnelson (talk) 00:14, 14 January 2024 (UTC) — Stellarnelson (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Delete. Unfortunately, the "keep" arguments do not seem to be based on an understanding of Wikipedia's notability guidelines.
 * The references cited in the article start with a biography written by Ozols himself, followed by an interview on the web site of a university to which he has a personal connection, and they continue with pages which don't even mention him, others which only briefly mention him or quote from him, non-independent sources, and so on... none of them are substantial coverage of Ozols in independent sources.
 * 14 references are given above by Schounrich; those given by Pierrestik are just a selection of those from Schounrich, and add nothing new. All of them are just reports of court cases in which Ozols acted, and they vary from one brief mention of his name as a lawyer acting in the case to a few quotes from what he said in connection to the case. None of them is anything like substantial coverage of Ozols.
 * Apart from the list of references, the comments from the three "keep" accounts include such statements as, for example, "you'll find instances where the cases are indeed notable", which is of course not the same as a lawyer acting in the case being notable, "Ozols has been mentioned in reputable sources and TV news", but being mentioned isn't enough. Then there are just assertions of notability without evidence, such as "has garnered substantial coverage in reputable news outlets", but as I have tried to show, no evidence of such substantial coverage has been provided. JBW (talk) 12:35, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete: I concur with the nom and JBW - there are no sources that satisfy all three of WP:RS, WP:IS, and WP:SIGCOV. Therefore, this fails WP:GNG. - UtherSRG (talk) 13:21, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Disagree See my argument below that Ozols meets SIGCOV and is covered by RS. Stellarnelson (talk) 00:14, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Speedy keep I read through both the keep and delete arguments. Now let me get to the nominator's comments:
 * 1) GNG is a very vague guideline, and it certainly isn't clear that Ozols doesn't meet GNG.
 * 2) As for SIGCOV, it isn't clear that he fails SIGCOV either. This is plenty of coverage, so we can't say that Ozols doesn't meet SIGCOV guidelines. Here's an excerpt from the article: "Alex Ozols has appeared as a television and print legal analyst for CNN,[34] MSNBC,[35] Fox News,[36] CBS News,[37][38][39] Crime Watch Daily,[40] Good Morning Britain,[41] One America News Network,[42] Newsmax,[43] Cinncinati Enquirer,[44] CBC News, ABC News and NBC News." These are all RS, not conspiracy theory or obscure spam websites.
 * 3) There are 7 notable legal cases that Ozols had played key roles in, all with plenty of significant media coverage.
 * 4) From a notability standpoint, Ozols certainly is notable enough, see my points #1-#4 above. Check Category:Lawyers from San Diego carefully, and you can see that Ozols is just as notable as many of the other lawyers in San Diego with their own Wikipedia articles. Furthermore, whether there are PROMO (doesn't look promo to me), UPE/COI issues remains to be seen, and should be dealt with separately.
 * @Stellarnelson, you may think WP:GNG is vague, but none of the experienced editors on this AfD have had any trouble interpreting it (every single one is voting delete). Rules-lawyering will not help you here. What will help your case is if you can find significant coverage in multiple independent, reliable sources. I have no idea whatsoever why you think that excerpt you have quoted in your #2 point counts as significant coverage; it very plainly does not. Appearing as an analyst is not significant coverage of a person. Is there biographical coverage of this person or their cases in independent sources? That's what you need. -- asilvering (talk) 04:51, 14 January 2024 (UTC)


 * Delete. No evidence of SIGCOV in IRS, clearly PROMO.
 * JoelleJay (talk) 03:29, 14 January 2024 (UTC)


 * Delete per above, All I'm seeing here is WP:COI and WP:PROMO TLA  (talk) 11:45, 14 January 2024 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.