Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Alex Tsimerman


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. The page creator is blocked for socking, all "keep"s are by new or little-used accounts... draw your own conclusions.  Sandstein  09:56, 29 December 2019 (UTC)

Alex Tsimerman

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Perennial candidate who has never advanced beyond the primary in local elections. Little direct coverage beyond his city council ban (a one-time event). Article is clearly not written in NPOV.  Sounder Bruce  04:05, 21 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions.  Sounder  Bruce  04:05, 21 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Washington-related deletion discussions.  Sounder  Bruce  04:05, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

I think this page ought to be edited significantly down and kept around. Alex Tsimerman is not just a perennial candidate a persistent nuisance at public meetings, has received two one-year bans from Seattle City Council & Municipal Tower, and is now the subject of a book I authored: "Tackling Tsimerman: Fighting Hateful Abuses of Public Comment to Restore Our Commons". Being I am the author of an Amazon-hosted product about Alex and have an adversarial relationship with Alex T., I am real genuinely wary of making contributions on this page. JosefAbraham 00:06, 22 December 2019 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by JosefAbraham (talk • contribs) I went ahead and made a few grammatical edits. Also posted some Qs on the talk page about citations. I think we should do a page on the prolific, vitriolic public commentator as a public service... very carefully. JosefAbraham 00:18, 22 December 2019 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by JosefAbraham (talk • contribs) "Shortly after losing the class action lawsuit against Tsimerman in December of 2011, the State of Washington charged Tsimerman in April of 2012 with theft of $9,000 from the State. The state charged Tsimerman with obtaining money for the care of his mother who had passed four months prior. Tsimerman did not hire a lawyer to defend himself against the criminal case as Pro Se. In less than a year the trial was over and the jury convicted Tsimerman of the $9,000 theft. Tsimerman did appeal the decision Pro Se again and lost this case as well." Still, if there is room for improvement, I am willing to rectify those things. Regarding the notability, not just a city ban, but the only person ever banned. And besides his elections, he is also the lead plaintiff on the largest ever awarded against the state of Washington for almost $100 million dollars. Additionally, local media consistently writes about Alex and his comments at the City council. He is an important political figure even if he isn't liked - as shown by the book written about him on Amazon. You can not only find news articles on him, but there is also a book as well; if he wasn't that notable, who would have spent that much time to write a book on him? Also, I think SounderBruce is getting personal with Alex, he is even mocking Alex on Twitter. Here is the link. Mr. SounderBruce is violating the Wikipedia rules https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:No_personal_attacks#Off-wiki_attacks and this needs to be kept in mind by other Wikipedians. If he doesn't like him personally, he can't use his privilege to take the page of Alex down. Thank you. JohnBB2 (talk) 13:14, 22 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete Local perennial candidate who fails NPOL. Reywas92Talk 06:54, 21 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep As long as I think, the article has been written keeping the NPOV in mind, if I wanted to promote just positive things, I wouldn't have cited negative things about the subject, like this paragraph.
 * Note that the page creator has been blocked for sockpuppetry and undisclosed paid editing. The linked book is self-published by another participant in this AfD. Regarding my tweet, it is of comedic nature, as I have commented on Tsimerman's activities before as part of my regular off-wiki life in the Seattle political junket.  Sounder Bruce  20:57, 22 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete. Perennial candidates who perennially lose elections are not "inherently" notable per WP:NPOL — the notability test at NPOL is holding a notable political office, not just running for one. So to merit inclusion here, he would have to pass one or the other of two tests: either he already had preexisting notability for other reasons that would already have gotten him an article independently of the candidacies, or he can be referenced to a depth and range of reliable source coverage that marks him out as much more special than most other cities' local cranks and gadflies — and while the commenters above are certainly trying for those, they're missing the boat, as being a nuisance at the city council level does not satisfy the former condition, and the range of sourcing shown here is not sufficient to meet the latter. And furthermore, even if there has been a book written about him, there's no evidence that the book would meet our notability standards for books either — availability on Amazon is not, in and of itself, an automatic inclusion freebie on Wikipedia for a book, particularly when the book we're talking about is a self-published Kindle ebook. So no, the fact that he was the subject of a non-notable writer's self-published ebook is not in and of itself a notability clincher for a person whose activities do not rise to the level of nationalized significance or nationalized attention. Bearcat (talk) 13:18, 22 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete The article clearly violates NPVO rules, but in theory that could be fixed. This guy has never been elected, and actually may never have even made it past the primary. He is no where near notable.John Pack Lambert (talk) 16:02, 23 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep but with serious abridgement. I generally share Bearcat's assessment but Alex Tsimerman also torments the King County Council, the Puget Sound Regional Council and Sound Transit.  Occasionally, although not mentioned in my book, Tsimerman has sortied to Snohomish County Council to retaliate for being disciplined by politicians in Snohomish County & Pierce County also serving on the Sound Transit federated board of multiple jurisdictions.  I think it's important people understand who we're dealing with here.  Being I am the author of a book for sale on this very subject, I don't want to be the one making substantive edits.  user:JosefAbraham[JosefAbraham JosefAbraham 00:29, 24 December 2019 (UTC)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by JosefAbraham (talk • contribs)
 * Those are still local entities, not national ones. There's no rule that only pestering a city council falls below the bar, while pestering the same city's county council and/or its transit agency somehow rises to some higher level of special — this is still purely local stuff of no enduring nationalized significance. Bearcat (talk) 15:28, 24 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep. I come with obvious bias as I worked with Alex a couple of years ago within the Seattle political Scene... however, I'd like to give some background, state some facts and understand what is actually happening. I was contacted by "John" back in August asking me if I would help supply information on Alex. At first I thought it may have been JosefAbraham (and still can't 100% say if it was him or not) and Alex told me to ignore him. John then said all he needed was some history and articles about Alex and that he was creating a wiki page. He asked several times and at the end of September Alex told me to just give him what I had and see what he'll do with it. Then he sends me a link to the Wiki page and I see all this discussion on if Alex is important enough to write a page on. In my bias, yes this is important to Seattle... so here I am to just give the facts as I see them and I would truly like to understand how Alex is not notable.
 * JosefAbraham is obviously biased but has written a 90-page book about Alex. Thus, Alex must be somewhat notable to have a book written on/against him. What makes him so notable? Well, a wiki page would discuss this more in depth.
 * Sounder Bruce  is obviously biased has he himself has said that "I have commented on Tsimerman's activities before as part of my regular off-wiki life in the Seattle political junket." How can Alex not be someone notable when a paid journalist spends time commenting on Alex's behaviors? Something of importance must be there for someone to waste their time to discuss a person. What makes him so noticeable and important? Well, a wiki page would discuss this more in depth.
 * Additionally, Both Bruce and Joe discussed the merits of Alex on Joe's talk page and within this talk page it was suggested that a Wiki page be created by Jwfowble. Jwfowble even offered to lend articles to help create the page. People on wikipedia already consider him notable enough to suggest that a page be created. Why would people already be talking about creating a page if there wasn't something notable about the subject. Well, a wiki page would discuss this more in depth.
 * Bearcat shows some form of bias by stating: "There's no rule that only pestering a city council falls below the bar, while pestering the same city's county council and/or its transit agency somehow rises to some higher level of special — this is still purely local stuff of no enduring nationalized significance." First, you call his actions pestering. That is your point of view and Alex (and even me) would call it something different. You obviously see what he does as inconsequential and not rising to the level of importance. However, even if you find him annoying, that does not preclude him for notability. Further, you suggest that it needs to be of national interest. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of articles for local areas that mean something to the people who live there and has no bearing on the country. For example - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leatherman_(vagabond). Alex is a staple within the political sphere of Seattle and as Jwfowble and even JosefAbraham have pointed out it would be significant to supply information to citizens as to who he is.
 * Additionally, Bearcat states that "Perennial candidates who perennially lose elections are not "inherently" notable". This statement falls on its face; advancing beyond the primary in local elections doesn't preclude Alex from notability. In fact, the notability page under politicians and judges states "an elected local official, or an unelected candidate for political office, does not guarantee notability" and tells the reader to see General Notability Guidelines.
 * With the Guidelines it states "If a topic has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, it is presumed to be suitable for a stand-alone article or list."
 * "Significant coverage" addresses the topic directly and in detail, so that no original research is needed to extract the content. Significant coverage is more than a trivial mention, but it does not need to be the main topic of the source material. - Over 30 links describe political and judicial activity (I had given John over 60 articles and links, but he only used 30 or so)
 * "Reliable" means that sources need editorial integrity to allow verifiable evaluation of notability, per the reliable source guideline. - Well known local newspapers and government articles cover Alex in over 30 links
 * "Sources" should be secondary sources, as those provide the most objective evidence of notability. There is no fixed number of sources required since sources vary in quality and depth of coverage, but multiple sources are generally expected. Multiple publications from the same author or organization are usually regarded as a single source for the purposes of establishing notability. - Over 10 different unique sources PLUS several government sources
 * "Independent of the subject" excludes works produced by the article's subject or someone affiliated with it. - Majority of works are associated with corporations and some are government bodies. In both cases, Alex has nothing to do with them.
 * "Presumed" means that significant coverage in reliable sources creates an assumption, not a guarantee, that a subject merits its own article. - Coverage is created by news agencies and government and thus should be assumed reliable.
 * I submit that Alex has made an imprint on Seattle's political history and his impact will be known for years. The government has become so angry against his actions that laws have been crafted against him to restrict him (and potentially other citizens) from attending meetings. This is valuable information for the people of Seattle to know where rules have come from and why. Alex's electoral runs are mere back stories to the larger discussion of what has been caused due to his actions. Notably having the largest class action awarded against the state due him filing the case and also his conviction from the state for doing the very thing he accused the state of doing. Sure, I agree his tactics are not the best but his impact is undoubtedly embedded with Seattle history. Reduce the page if you must but to ignore Alex simply shows the bias many have against him. As someone new to this wikipedia editing, I would like to honestly know why edits can't be made instead of deleting the page (and no I have not written this on behalf of Alex... these are my thoughts alone). Sam4Seattle (talk) 03:25, 27 December 2019 (UTC)

Sam4Seattle It was not me as a, ""John" back in August asking me if I would help supply information on Alex". I get most of my information via watching public meetings and public records requests. If you can even have a conversation with this Alex Tsimerman, good on you. Me, I walked up to Alex several times in the past, asked him why he is such a bully and he then runs into Sound Transit HQ reception demanding security get in my face.

That said, you summarized my views quite well. Folks need to know who this person is. Also, as you noted, Tsimerman has been so malicious that, "Laws have been crafted against him to restrict him (and potentially other citizens) from attending meetings. This is valuable information for the people of Seattle to know where rules have come from and why." I agree and I cover some of that in my book available at bit.ly/TT1stEd. Anyone editing the WikiPedia page ought to read it. Furthermore, there is a pledge from the incoming Sound Transit Board Chair to tighten up the rules around public comment. JosefAbraham (talk • contribs) JosefAbraham 03:35, 27 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Delete Perrenial candidate who fails NPOL. Best, GPL93 (talk) 14:33, 27 December 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.