Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Alexis Cohen (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. Courcelles 00:15, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Alexis Cohen
AfDs for this article: 
 * – ( View AfD View log  •  )

This page has been recreated though AFC but was previously deleted at AFD under BLP1E. Since there has been no further news coverage since her death I cannot see how this article can overcome that close. I did consider a g4 but since this has been through AFC a further discussion is appropriate. BLP1E still applies. Spartaz Humbug! 06:01, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep, she was on American Idol, and was covered significantly (as references on her page show) due to her death, counts to me as 2 events. C T J F 8 3  chat 06:02, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
 * 11 News Articles from this year, after her death. C T J F 8 3  chat 06:12, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Pretty much all about the man who killed heundefinedr. Spartaz Humbug! 06:14, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Killed her, since you said no news coverage since her death, I'm pointing out 11 instances of news since her death....perhaps the page can include her and the trial of the guy that killed her, would that be sufficient for you? C T J F 8 3  chat 06:16, 4 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Delete, again. Sub-notable individual who earned news coverage only by dying. Hairhorn (talk) 13:27, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
 * So she meets WP:GNG....right? C T J F 8 3  chat 17:38, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
 * BLP1E trumps GNG every time.... and meeting GNG has never been an absolute defense against deletion. Hairhorn (talk) 04:29, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Umm...did you just make that rule up? Where is the policy that says BLP1E trumps GNG. C T J F 8 3  chat 06:54, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Erm, that's what BLP1says.... that anyone notable for one event doesn't merit an entry, it's moot whether they meet GNG or not. Hairhorn (talk) 11:35, 8 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Weak keep per Ctjf83. Jeremjay  24  ''' 14:46, 4 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Keep Borderline N, but for me this is beyond WP:BLP1E and there is enough coverage for a valid article  Chzz  ► 15:03, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete - The coverage of her death resulted from her appearance on American Idol which still puts this in the ambit of WP:ONEEVENT. Had she not been on AI she wouldn't have gotten the range of obits. Counting AI as one event and her death as a second event subverts the intent of ONEEVENT. A non-notable person suddenly becomes notable upon death? No. Are You The Cow Of Pain? (talk) 15:56, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
 * It isn't the fact that she died, it is the fact that she was killed in a hit-and-run incident, and that was deemed newsworthy in itself (admittedly because of her prior appearance on AI). I take your point, but personally I feel there is sufficient material in RS to support an article. However, I do appreciate that it is a matter of opinion.  Chzz  ► 16:22, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
 * You don't know that her death would have resulted in no news coverage if she wasn't on idol. What about all those "nobodys" who were significantly covered in the media Laci Peterson, JonBenét Ramsey, etc. C T J F 8 3  chat 16:46, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
 * If you read WP:1E it mostly talks about whether to create separate articles for a person and the event, not that one even doesn't make a person notable, otherwise my 2 above examples would be deleted too, Cohen has significant coverage to meet GNG. C T J F 8 3  chat 17:10, 4 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Keep Alexis Cohen had a lot coverage about her in the media, before and a huge amount after her death. Lots of notable sources, ABC News, NBC, CBS, CNN, People Magazine, yes, she is notable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.196.37.227 (talk) 16:56, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:ONEEVENT and WP:NOTNEWS. The "after death" coverage is about the indictment relating to the crime/accident that caused her death. That is simply routine follow-up news coverage relating to a previously reported crime. The person doesn't pass WP:NMUSIC, WP:GNG and the untimely death and resulting indictment do not pass WP:EFFECT.--74.57.5.235 (talk) 20:35, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Umm...which of GNG does she not pass? Significant coverage reliable, Independent of the subject ...I fail to see how it doesn't pass gng.  C T J F 8 3  chat 02:24, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment - WP:ONEEVENT, the reliable coverage is essentially about the fact that she was an American Idol contestant, thus, she should have mention in the appropriate American Idol season article (a redirect would be acceptable), but not her own article per WP:NMUSIC as, AFAIK, she was not a finalist. The accidental death is routine news coverage of accidental deaths. The article as it stands is nothing more than a couple of lines about her and her death, and lots of puffing of the death coverage to try to make her appear more notable.--74.57.5.235 (talk) 12:20, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
 * You are failing to answer my question, as to how she doesn't pass GNG...plus if people read ONEEVENT I don't see anywhere, where it says someone involved in one event doesn't need a page...it discusses if both the person and the event need a page or just one or the other. C T J F 8 3  chat 16:45, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment (full disclosure, I am the same person as the above IP:74.57.5.235, just on a different IP, I'd rather not register so just to explain this is not sockpuppetry or a separate vote). The point is that this person's 15 minutes of fame were related to some rant as a failed American Idol candidate. That is the WP:ONEEVENT, and thus a separate article is not needed as there is nothing to say about the person outside of that American Idol (season 7) (and possibly season 8 for the other failed audition). The accidental death also had some coverage but it is purely accidental. Had this accident occured 10 years from now, there would have been no wide coverage outside from routine local accident news. There is nothing encyclopedic to say about this person (she ranted on AI, she died in a hit-and-run). She had wide coverage for 15 minutes. So did Christina Desforges (look at the AfD for that one). It's a clear case of WP:NOTNEWS.--70.80.234.196 (talk) 16:06, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep Regardless, she is notable, subject has many reliable sources from major news sources, NBC, CNN, Fox News, ABC, CBS, Entertainment Weekly, with this much coverage she is notable and more than worthy of her own article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.151.53.27 (talk) 23:46, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep Subject has numerous reliable sources and is notable per Ctjf83. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.151.53.27 (talk) 02:51, 5 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Keep Per Ctjf83.  Forty two  07:57, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 19:11, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 19:11, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Weak Keep Per the already discussed WP:GNG and other policies. Fact remains she has significant coverage for two events.  My only concern is that her death isn't notable and was only in the news because she was on American Idol.  That said, she does barely meet.--v/r - TP 23:36, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment - what about WP:NOTNEWS? Wiki is concerned about enduring notability, not temporary wide coverage. Lots of things get widely covered for 15 minutes. There is no depth here. Really, two thirds of the text is about her death, which is something otherwise unnotable. There's more references saying the exact same thing about her death than there is actual text to the article. A redirect to American Idol (season 7) and a mention there is all that is needed. All there is right now is puffery.--70.80.234.196 (talk) 00:10, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Did you note my 11 News events linked above from this year? Is that lasting enough for you? Plus you don't know how long in the future the coverage will be either. C T J F 8 3  chat 03:15, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep Per C T J F 8 3, sources such as CNN, Fox, CBS, NBC, ABC is hardly "puffery".98.151.53.27 (talk) 04:20, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment I did see the 11 "news events" posted. Half are the indictment of the driver in the hit-and-run, routine follow-up coverage of crime. The other half are passing mentions relating to outbursts/rants of another failed AI auditionner that rivaled her own. Nothing of substance. Again, there's nothing to be said beyond two lines. She was a failed AI candidate who got 15 minutes of fame for a rant. She died in a hit-and-run. It wouldn't take much space on American Idol (season 7). The rest is "those two things were reported here, here, here, here, here and here". That is puffery. William Hung got a record deal and appeared outside of interviews on shows like Arrested Development. What did Alexis Cohen do outside AI?--70.80.234.196 (talk) 01:44, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Alexis Cohen received extensive coverage from multiple reliable sources and that makes her notable in the same way JonBenét Ramsey and Laci Peterson was notable. If she hadn't received coverage from "here, here, here, here, here and here" she wouldn't be notable.  But she did and is therefore notable much like Ramsey and Peterson. 12.196.37.227 (talk) 19:10, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Notice how Laci Peterson redirects to Murder of Laci Peterson per WP:ONEEVENT and covers in length the event rather than the person. For JonBenét Ramsey, that saga was much bigger than whatever Alexis Cohen has done and the size of the article reflects it. Again, the issue is that there's nothing of substance to put here.--70.80.234.196 (talk) 00:49, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Bottom line is plenty of reliable sources from major news outlets like CNN, Fox, CBS, ABC, NBC, equals more than enough substance, how many people get that kind of coverage? She's more than notable.12.196.37.227 (talk) 16:13, 10 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Strong Keep Alexis Cohen had a lot coverage and is notable. - Ret.Prof (talk) 03:46, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.