Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Alexis Grace


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. WP:SNOW  MBisanz  talk 23:25, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Alexis Grace

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

Another article for a non-entity reality TV contestant. Fails WP:BIO, WP:RS and WP:MUSIC. Unless she wins (which will be a long time off anyway), releases an album/single or is found to be noteable in some other way, then it's delete, delete, delete. Dalejenkins | 23:26, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep. American Idol finalists get their own articles. They are notable by virtue of the fact that they are members of the Top 12 of one of the, if not the, most popular reality TV shows currently airing. The vast majority of AI contestants go on to make records, star in Broadway productions, etc. The article needs to be expanded over time, not deleted. Hermione1980 23:33, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
 * No they don't. They need to pass the guidlines that I mentioned previously. And none of this Broadway/album stuff has occured yet - Wikipedia is not a crystal ball and therefore this article should be deleted. A sub-section of the American Idol Series 8 will do in the mean time. Dalejenkins | 23:38, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
 * WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS is no excuse aswell. Also, as you are a member of WP:IDOL and declare on your page that you are an American Idol fan, I feel that WP:ILIKEIT needs to be considered. Dalejenkins | 23:45, 23 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Please strike the incorrect portion of your comments. I am not a member of the Idol WikiProject. Hermione1980 23:51, 23 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep From WikiProject Idol series: "For contestants, it has been decided that only finalists should qualify for their own article based on their participation in the show. Semi-finalists who are not otherwise notable are redirected to their season's article." Grace passes #9 from WP:MUSIC. Reliable sources need to be found.Aspects (talk) 00:05, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * WP:IDOL is a WikiProject, not a guidline. It means absolutely nothing. Dalejenkins | 00:10, 24 February 2009 (UTC)


 * OK. How about the fact that if you go through the templates in Category:American Idol templates, virtually every finalist has an article? Or that finalists have gone through many many previous AfDs in previous seasons and have almost always survived? Look here to see what I mean. And that's not even an all inclusive list. This really is an "every year" issue and every year the articles are kept. The only exceptions have been articles created before the person has been a finalist (Michael Castro this year for example). --User:Woohookitty Diamming fool! 09:40, 24 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Strong Keep per above. ApprenticeFan (talk) 00:30, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep per my note on the Gokey nom. Another silly, point-y nomination. H2O Shipper 01:05, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep A Google search supports the subject's notability: . Please add references to the article. Pastor Theo (talk) 01:30, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep as per Aspects. Meets notability guidelines. Edward321 (talk) 03:30, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete for totally failing WP:BIO. - Biruitorul Talk 05:07, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Except that it doesn't. Not liking something isn't enough reason for deleting. And saying it fails BIO doesn't mean it actually does. H2O Shipper 05:09, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm not really seeing the "published secondary source material which is reliable, intellectually independent, and independent of the subject", as required by WP:BIO. - Biruitorul Talk 06:54, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep Why do we go through this EVERY SINGLE YEAR? We have a very long precedent for this. AI finalists receive articles. Period. All you need to do is to look at any of the templates here or the Wikiproject for Idol. Or the many many previous AfDs on this matter. American Idol is such a big show in the United States (it's the #1 program by several ratings points year after year) and there has been such success to come out of the show (38 charted artists in 7 seasons according to Billboard magazine) that the finalists are notable just for being on the program. Just do a google search for Alexis Grace, Danny Gokey or Michael Sarver and you will see I mean. I wish we could stop doing this every year. Hate to be snippy here but I'm tired of saying this every single year. :) --User:Woohookitty Diamming fool! 09:33, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Not mention that it is also being broadcast in parts of Asia, Australia, United Kingdom, Canada, and the rest of North America. LIVE!!!- 23 prootie cute  02:51, 25 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep Per the Idol WikiProject guidelines. Sam  Blab 23:35, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep. Sufficiently sourced, and most importantly, we have articles (the notability of which is established) on all previous American Idol contestants. This indicates that, regardless of a contestant's performance, they will be notable after the show ends. Why delete an article just because there are a few months before someone becomes notable, when we know they will? If we deleted all the "tabloid trash" and related stuff, Wikipedia would, most likely, suffer harm. Bart133 t c @ How's my driving? 02:15, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep Haha. Dalejenkins is funny and probably lives under a rock. -- 23 prootie cute 
 * Please comment on content, not the contributor. Hermione1980 02:38, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
 * i just don't get why some people can be so oblivious when a quick and easy Google search can easily determine how much fame this person has.-- 23 prootie cute 
 * Keep Its 11 to keep and only two to keep. How much longer must we endure this?

List of redundant arguments that are on this, and the other 2, AFDs
Please read - Dalejenkins | 17:45, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
 * People stating that the articles pass WP:BIO/WP:MUSIC/WP:NOTE when they haven't read these policies
 * It doesn't matter if American Idol is the biggest show in the US - that does not determine notability. See also - WP:IKNOWIT and WP:ITSA.
 * Search engine tests for notability are not suitable to detirmine notability.
 * "We've set a precident - deal with it" is rubbish. Consensus can change.
 * Just because other American Idol contestants have articles, doesn't mean that these 3 should.
 * "We talked about this last year" is another redundant argument - this is 2009.
 * AFDs consist of discussion, not votes. People stating on this, and the other 2 related AFDs, that the majority believes something so therefore it is right is incorrect and arguments should be thorough.
 * "We've got loads of related articles and they aren't doing any harm" is silly.
 * It doesn't matter wheter you think they'll be worthy of note in the future. We're discussing the here and now.
 * Last comment here: I rely not solely on precedent in my "keep" recommendation, though precedent in this case is long and persuasive. However, if long established precedent alone is not enough to sway, it should be noted that all three articles have 1000+ Gnews hits. This series of AfDs seems far more about what some wish were the case regarding standards for inclusion in Wikipedia than what actually is the case. H2O Shipper 19:38, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
 * And well done, you also just broke WP:POPULARPAGE. Dalejenkins | 21:19, 25 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Comment Wikiedia is not a crystal ball so before you try to predict their popularity, please wait until the show is over, as we say in our culture papansin ka lang.-- 23 prootie cute 
 * Merge into American Idol (season 8) along with Michael Sarver and Danny Gokey. There simply is not enough information on them to warrant their own articles yet...  Eventually when more info comes we can re-create the pages, but there just isn't enough right now.  The info. will just be redundant and duplicate here. Ejfetters (talk) 03:28, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
 * i think it is really cute how much Dalejenkins professes his love for American Idol by showing us how many Wikilaws he knows. If your not a fan of the show then how do you know which people to target. You're obviously a fan but too emasculated to admit it. -- 23 prootie cute 
 * Keep American Idol Top 12 finalist, what more notability would one need?! --Ekabhishek (talk) 17:49, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep AI finalists qualify for their own article - they're notable by definition. &mdash; CJewell (talk to me) 20:16, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Strong keep - They are finalists, and they have met notability right there. Only a few finalists lack articles, and they are from early seasons who lost notability by doing nothing for a long time post-Idol. CrazyC83 (talk) 02:25, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete. Other Idol-related articles have the winner and its runners-up notable for Wikipedia.  The only way for these finalists to have its own articles is when they have their own album, which would pass notability issues.  By the way, remember that THIS IS NOT A MAJORITY VOTE (and I hope the closing admin would read that part). 13:53, 27 February 2009 (UTC)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.198.145.132 (talk)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.