Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Alice Hyatt (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. (non-admin closure) buidhe 21:58, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Alice Hyatt
AfDs for this article: 
 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

No evidence this fictional character passes GNG/NFICITON. It's pure WP:PLOT. Last AfD ended due to multiple WP:THEREMUSTBESOURCES. Sorry, I am not seeing anything in my BEFORE besides one sentence analysis like in. Last AfD's best source was but that doesn't seem to go much beyond PLOT either. Can SOFTDELETE by redirecting to her movie. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 12:26, 18 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here  12:26, 18 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions. Toughpigs (talk) 15:31, 18 February 2020 (UTC)

Delete per WP:PLOT. --BonkHindrance (talk) 18:41, 18 February 2020 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: I did originally close this as delete, but requested a reopening/restoration on the grounds that there may be in fact substantial commentary and roles which might establish WP:NACTOR. Complying with the request and adding a relist.
 * Delete and create a new redirect - Article fails WP:GNG. The film should easily be capable of talking about all topics related to the character regardless. TTN (talk) 12:03, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 15:36, 7 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Strong keep. "Alice Hyatt" is the protagonist of Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore, a seminal Martin Scorsese film with major award recognition, as well as a long-running TV series. Ellen Burstyn won BAFTA and Academy Awards for her portrayal of the character; Linda Lavin was nominated for or won Emmy and Golden Globe awards for playing the TV version. To say that critical commentary on the character could not be found defies even the slightest credibility -- especially since cursory GBooks and GScholar searches turn up substantive commentary on the very first pages of results. This deletion serves no purpose except to embarrass Wikipedia. The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo). Treated like dirt by many administrators since 2006.  Fight for freedom, stand with Hong Kong! (talk) 17:11, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
 * , props to you for requesting a relist. Erik (talk &#124; contrib) (ping me) 12:14, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep per WP:NEXIST: There are four books already listed on the article as references, and two of them have extensive coverage.
 * Ellen Burstyn's Lessons in Becoming Myself has three pages (pg 288-290) specifically about the character of Alice Hyatt — how she was scripted, Burstyn's input in the characterization, and changes that they made to the character and the script.
 * Martin Scorsese's America discusses Alice on at least seven pages, analyzing her characterization in the context of Scorsese's other films.
 * I can't get immediate access to the other Scorsese book, The Passion of Martin Scorsese: A Critical Study of the Films, but given the coverage in the book listed above, I surmise that there's similar analysis here.
 * I think that this demonstrates notability. — Toughpigs (talk) 19:06, 7 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Keep. I guess it isn't doing any damage, and the book coverage mentioned in the votes above seems to hold up. The most irritating aspect is the lack of inline sourcing. 67.243.20.177 (talk) 18:18, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep per 's outline. Furthermore, a very quick look in Google Books led me to The Scorsese Psyche on Screen: Roots of Themes and Characters in the Films, in which this character is covered in detail. This is actually a really good book to help establish notability for standalone articles of fictional characters in Scorsese's films. Erik (talk &#124; contrib) (ping me) 12:12, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep per the sources identified by and . — Hunter Kahn</b> 12:54, 14 April 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.