Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Allentown Fire Department


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. &mdash; Coffee //  have a cup  //  beans  // 14:50, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

Allentown Fire Department

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Non-notable fire company. No reliable third party sources given. Tinton5 (talk) 21:29, 18 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Pennsylvania-related deletion discussions. N ORTH A MERICA 1000 03:56, 19 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Merge selectively to Allentown, Pennsylvania – Fire Department. N ORTH A MERICA 1000 03:56, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't think this article needs to be merged into the Allentown article. I would just delete this and leave the Allentown article as is. There is no need to include the level of detail given here on the Allentown page Monopoly31121993 (talk) 21:28, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Regarding the detail in the article, my !vote is for a selective merge, not a full merge. N ORTH A MERICA 1000 21:35, 19 January 2015 (UTC)


 * delete it's just a list of facts about a non notable fire company Deunanknute (talk) 06:14, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 12:09, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, N ORTH A MERICA 1000 00:08, 26 January 2015 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spirit of Eagle (talk) 04:14, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep It seems easy to find sources about this topic such as Allentown: The Story Of A Pittsburgh Neighborhood; Living in the Allentown Area; Souvenir History of the Allentown Fire Department; Historic homes and institutions and genealogical and personal memoirs of the Lehigh Valley, Pennsylvania, &c. Andrew D. (talk) 12:37, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete The sources cited above are either not reliable (not from an established publisher) or don't discuss the topic in sufficient detail. It's easy enough to find mentions of any fire department in a book or newspaper or two - this does not constitute significant coverage. And all the sources currently used in the article are primary. Nwlaw63 (talk) 17:59, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
 * It's easy to find coverage of such historic fire departments in books and newspapers because they are notable. The sources above look just fine to me but, if you don't care for those, it's easy to find more including, The Firehouse: an architectural and social history; Past, Present, and Future of the City of Allentown, PA; Statistics of Fire Departments of Cities Having a Population of Over 30,000; Fire and Water Engineering; Men of Allentown; Allentown, Pa. Bicentennial, 1962; &c. Andrew D. (talk) 23:50, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Significant coverage does not constitute a line or two here and there or a few statistics. It's in-depth, substantial coverage, none of which this is. Nwlaw63 (talk) 07:24, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
 * There is extensive material out there which easily passes WP:SIGCOV. This subject has existed for over two hundred years and so, as a topic, it is far more weighty and substantial than Nwlaw63's own work such as Where White Men Fear to Tread. Andrew D. (talk) 08:36, 4 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Comment - This is a terrible catalog of hardware. I suspect the fire company is itself notable if anyone was inclined to research the history and source it out. I'd be amenable to a TNT solution here, since just about every syllable needs to go away from a truly encyclopedic piece. Carrite (talk) 20:55, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
 * The word "encyclopedic" is just another way of saying I don't like it. It seems likely that many readers are quite interested in the details of fire fighting equipment.  But if you think the current content is dull, then you should try browsing the sources.  For example, the book Ice Diving Operations tells us that "Members of the Allentown Fire Department in Pennsylvania use Dr. Scholl's inserts in the bottom of their drysuit boots.  The inserts definitely keep feet warmer and protected..."  The book Past, Present, and Future of the City of Allentown tells us that "...it was in 1811 that the law authorized our first fire ladders."  The journal Fire Engineering  explains that "The Allentown Fire Department uses the following insignia: Chief, five gold horns on cap and coat lapels; deputy chief, four gold horns ...".  There is clearly a huge quantity of detail out there and people who aren't interested in it should just move along to something that they do care about.   In Carrite's case, that includes "Pumpkin farmers, peanut vendors" and the wonderfully named "boring from within".  There's no accounting for taste.... Andrew D. (talk) 00:11, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Insulting the interests of other editors isn't an argument, and appears to violate WP:CIVIL. Nwlaw63 (talk) 15:10, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I applaud Carrite's catholic tastes rather than insulting them. I had supposed that he spent all his time on pioneers of socialism, who seemed too dry and dull for my taste, and so I'm pleased that he's covering other types of topic too.  My point is that we all tend to differ in our appreciation of such things and I reckon that fire fighting equipment is more exciting than most.  Now, insofar as Carrite has recommended any particular course of action, it's WP:TNT — destroying the page in order to rebuild it.  Blowing things up isn't policy though and our actual editing policy is to make bold changes of that sort using ordinary editing rather than deletion, so that the edit history is preserved and we can refer back to earlier versions as needed. Andrew D. (talk) 17:39, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.