Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Allflaws


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. After disregarding Adamyouthold's disruptive walls of text, it's 1:3, all of which make reasonable arguments. Good enough for rough consensus to delete.  Sandstein  21:40, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

Allflaws

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perhaps i am missing something but it doesn't appear this band has ever or is currently notable. searching google and various music review sites gives me nothing, newspaper archives, books and magazines are the same. I don't see any major labels or charting. Fails NMUSIC. Praxidicae (talk) 21:44, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Hello Praxidicae,

Please understand that Allflaws is an underground music act that have been releasing records since 2004 on Derelict State Records. I have just maintained this page and tried to keep to the rules and help build up my skill set on Wikipedia. Allflaws from my research definitely warranted a page and passed the criteria for notoriety and credentials. So I think it would be a shame if it was deleted. I would hope it could be modified instead and that would be a compromise. This page has been running for over ten years and I think the problem is that any articles have been put in External Links and not References. I have posted articles in the External Links section where you can see press that Allflaws has had for well over a decade. These articles should actually be in the References section as I said. They need to be moved there as that's where they should be located. That might be why you can't see any validation of notoriety. Please look at these articles in the External Links section for validation that this is a notable artist worthy of a page. I think these articles and the social media presence on Youtube, Facebook and Twitter will all reinforce this.

I am trying to find a way to get some of the links into references so you can see that this artist is credible. Please help with this? Please could you kindly remove the deletion tag and I will try moving all the articles from the External Links section into References section.

Thank you and sorry for any confusion with my article.

Here are some links to publications who have published Allflaws. Most of them are in the External Links section but need to be in References. Please have a look at them.

https://bbmlive.com/allflaws-music-video-gets-banned-from-youtube/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Adamyouthold (talk • contribs) 16:59, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

http://www.londonstreetartdesign.co.uk/new-rebel-spirit-video-from-allflaws/

http://www.aaamusic.co.uk/2012/03/16/allflaws-releasing-new-single/

http://www.supajam.com/news/story/Allflaws-Bristolian-darkness/

http://abortmag.com/2010/03/bristol-trip-hoppers-allflaws-release-new-video/

https://rdl.de/beitrag/forward-all-directions-24-september-mitternacht-allflaws-feature

https://www.reflectionsofdarkness.com/releases-news-165/12057-allflaws-release-qr-complexq-video/

https://exclaim.ca/music/article/allflaws-escaping_sanity/  -  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclaim!

https://www.famemagazine.co.uk/fame-recommends-allflaws/

http://regenmag.com/news/allflaws-release-new-ep/

http://thenervousbreakdown.com/gcurran/2010/11/21-questions-with-gabriel-curran/

http://flaneur.me.uk/06/new-album-from-allflaws-versus-the-soul/

http://www.prog-sphere.com/news/allflaws-release-new-album-versus-the-soul/

https://phonic.fm/2013/allflaws-announce-release-date-of-new-album-versus-the-soul/

https://afterdark.co/blog/reviews/allflaws-releasing-new-album/

https://www.nocturnal.asia/news/allflaws-set-to-release-acid-face-video/

http://www.brutalresonance.com/news/industrial-hip-hop-project-allflaws-releases-new-album-mysterium/

https://www.hitzound.com/allflaws-cast-away/

http://alternation.eu/allflaws_-_black_box_here_after,id,2015,aktualnosci.html

http://www.mayhemderanged.com/e_fuse1007.pdf/

http://read.uberflip.com/i/88421-issue-44-2012/35?m4= - page 37

https://guestlist.net/newspapers - see issue 44 page 37

https://www.sputnikmusic.com/bands/Allflaws/74138/   -  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sputnikmusic

Here are some links for external Links section

https://www.allflaws.com https://www.facebook.com/Allflaws https://twitter.com/ALLFLAWS http://derelictstaterecords.co.uk/artists.html

Hope this helps

Adam — Preceding unsigned comment added by Adamyouthold (talk • contribs) 22:30, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 05:47, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of England-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 05:47, 15 January 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete. I can't find anything to show show this meets the guidelines for inclusion set out at WP:MUSICBIO. While there is some coverage, as shown above, hardly any of these are either in-depth or reliable. Sorry, but this does not pass the notability criteria. — sparklism hey! 13:03, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

I have put plenty of credible and reliable coverage above. Plus there was also old coverage which has since gone out of date which I can find again. It just seems that this artist and this article will be unfairly thrown in the trash. For over ten years I have looked after this page and it now seems to be getting undermined, discredited and targeted. I've seen pages with far less coverage stay active. I just hope there is some justice here and someone takes time to look at the evidence. I can only hope. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Adamyouthold (talk • contribs) 16:52, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

I have now put around 19 publication links above who have press coverage on Allflaws. Hope this can help.
 * , the article is not being "undermined, discredited and targeted", it is simply being assessed to see if it meets the guidelines for inclusion set out at WP:MUSICBIO. If you believe that these criteria are met, then please provide some evidence. At present, there are no reliable sources in the article that indicate the notability of this artist. Thanks. — sparklism hey! 07:55, 16 January 2020 (UTC)

Hello Sparkism, I really am finding it hard to see how these articles are not credible and reliable and do not indicate notability. There are publications from Holland, Germany, USA, UK, Canada, Asia and are doing features and interviews with Allflaws. I have now put another link above amounting to 20 publications. Once again please look through these. Thanks
 * , discussions are easier to read on pages like this one if you sign your posts. Thanks. The links you give show that the artist exists, but that alone is not enough to meet the Wikipedia standard for notability. Of the 20 links you have posted, which one(s) of these would meet the Wikipedia definition of reliable sources set out at WP:RS and therefore help to meet the guidelines for inclusion through significant coverage? If you read the links I have posted this might help you show us how this artist meets the requirements for an article on Wikipedia. — sparklism hey! 13:13, 16 January 2020 (UTC)


 * Keep: The bulk of the links posted above are album release blurbs, and many amount to what's likely a lightly padded press release at best. However, this writeup and this article  both seem to constitute independent and significant coverage of the band. I've seen shorter pieces than either pass for WP:SIGCOV, and I can't find reason to think either source is unreliable. BBM is one of Sydney's free weeklies, and Fuse has substantial history. Skeletor3000 (talk) 16:50, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
 * While I agree that FUSE in theory would lend itself to being notable, I don't see that being the case here since it's a 3 sentence blurb. Praxidicae (talk) 17:03, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Are we looking at the same piece? I agree that it's short, but it's a couple of paragraphs long, not 3 sentences. Skeletor3000 (talk) 17:11, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Sorry, its a total of 4 sentences. It is condensed into a small space, if it were typed out it would look basically like my response now. Praxidicae (talk) 17:17, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
 * I just copy-pasted it into the editing area and you're simply incorrect. I also count 8 sentences, many of which are quite long and list off comparisons to other bands, etc. This conversation is feeling pretty pedantic at this point, so I'm going to step back and wait for others to weigh in. Skeletor3000 (talk) 17:47, 16 January 2020 (UTC)

Skeletor3000
 * Perhaps you're not looking at the right text. It's no more than a single paragraph when written in full form. It is not in depth coverage but there is absolutely no sense in quibbling over the length of it because anyone can see it is not substantial in the slightest. Praxidicae (talk) 18:21, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
 * The fact that the length is in debate to the point that you assume I've read the wrong review actually makes me think you aren't recognizing that the second paragraph of the writeup is still talking about Allflaws. It's the portion that provides comparisons to other acts, etc. that I believe make it of reasonable depth. Please check the source again. Skeletor3000 (talk) 21:46, 17 January 2020 (UTC)
 * I don't think it is the same Fuse magazine. Fuse_(magazine) is a Canadian publication about 'interchange between art, media, and politics'. While the Fuse mag in this source appears to a British publication focused music, especially live music. Jonpatterns (talk) 11:56, 21 January 2020 (UTC)

Skeletor3000 Thank you for clarifying that. I do appreciate you looking at the information and giving your opinion. I have also found this interview with US publication (The Nervous Breakdown) http://thenervousbreakdown.com/gcurran/2010/11/21-questions-with-gabriel-curran/ They Also have a Wikipedia page here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nervous_Breakdown_(magazine) Adamyouthold (talk) 17:38, 44 January 2020 (UTC)
 * That is an interview, not coverage. Praxidicae (talk) 18:16, 16 January 2020 (UTC)

Praxidicae It just seems that you are being pedantic and looking for holes in this article. I think it has a enough coverage to justify being notable. I have seen pages with less coverage and they have no problems. Adamyouthold (talk) 20:07, 44 January 2020 (UTC)
 * You need to learn to comment on content and not editors. I'm not being pedantic, I'm basing this on policy and consensus, . Praxidicae (talk) 20:08, 16 January 2020 (UTC)

No problem Praxidicae, I am just baffled to why this page has been placed under scrutiny when it seems to meet the criteria. Adamyouthold (talk) 20:30, 44 January 2020 (UTC)

Please look at this. I have also put it into the links above. It is a well known established magazine in London called the GuestList who have interviewed and featured many well known artists from around the world. https://guestlist.net/newspapers. In issue 44 page 37 Allflaws have album of the month http://read.uberflip.com/i/88421-issue-44-2012/35?m4= Adamyouthold (talk) 11:57, 17 January 2020 (UTC)

I have also put this in the links above https://www.sputnikmusic.com/bands/Allflaws/74138/   -  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sputnikmusic Adamyouthold (talk) 15:31, 17 January 2020 (UTC)

And this feature on German Radio https://rdl.de/beitrag/forward-all-directions-24-september-mitternacht-allflaws-feature - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Dreyeckland Adamyouthold (talk) 15:40, 17 January 2020 (UTC)

Not sure if this is helpful. Here is some coverage in a Canadian publication Exclaim. https://exclaim.ca/music/article/allflaws-escaping_sanity/ - Here is their wiki page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclaim Adamyouthold (talk) 17:31, 17 January 2020 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Lots of comments by the page creator. Hoping for participation on the grounds of if this article should be deleted for failing GNG per the nominator.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Missvain (talk) 18:40, 21 January 2020 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: One of the two sources used to back up the potential notability of this article is a piece by a non-reliable source called Fuse (not to be confused with Fuse (magazine)). So, I'm not seeing a current argument that would substantiate us retaining this article. Relisting to provide time for further comment, as per the prior relist.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Coffee //  have a ☕️ //  beans  // 21:03, 28 January 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete After looking through everything above I don't see how this band, well more of a pseudonym really (if it is a band rather than a bunch of session musicians, who are the other members?), passes WP:GNG let alone WP:NMUSIC. All of the sources are nothing more than press releases or wikt:churnalism saying he released a new album or video and  these "reviews" don't read as in-depth critical prose. The BBM website is rather strange, if you go out of the article and onto the rest of the website I'm left with the impression that it is a glorified version of Classified advertising. If banning the video was notorious why is it only on this website? Finally no Allmusic listing page. Mattg82 (talk) 21:58, 29 January 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.